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Wow you iPhone guys sure are sensitive. I see this a playing out much like the Mac from 84 onwards with regards to the UI. > ...which has sold a billion applic

by dejb 17y ago

Wow you iPhone guys sure are sensitive. I see this a playing out much like the Mac from 84 onwards with regards to the UI. > ...which has sold a billion applications in less than a year Actually this is downloads not sales. Most estimates are that about 95% percent of downloads are free so that would make about 50M apps sold. Readers may want to consider why they are upvoting a story that contains false information and downvoting the story that corrects it. They may want to ask themselves 'just what has happened to my critical faculties with regards to the iphone'. Or not. Of course other platforms that actually allow you to install software without the approval of their 'app store' can't trumpet numbers like these cause they don't know about every single app their users are installing. It's called freedom.

zimbabwe 17y ago
The Mac in 84 onwards was run by a man who thought Apple had to sacrifice its design integrity to succeed. Since then it has been placed back in Jobs' hands, and he's taken a decade to fill it with people who believe in his design philosophy. Note that the iPod has maintained its virtual monopoly thanks to design alone. So far, no competitor has arisen to match the iPhone. I'd love it if one appeared, but it hasn't happened so far. You seem to think that design progress is a given. Look at Microsoft for the counterexample. They have progressed their design several major times since Windows 95, and each one has taken steps back. The fact that window borders are now twice as huge as they were a decade ago, or that gradients have been added where gradients are not needed, makes me think that the people designing Windows simply don't know what about Apple's design appeals to people. Phone design seems similarly hedged. I play with every major phone that comes out, because I want somebody to get Apple scared enough to turn more competitive. So far, nothing done. I don't know why companies feel the need to place meaningless gradients for backgrounds, or shade things in pretty ways that reduce functionality, but they all do, and they seem to think it's helping. Apple's not perfect here - there's a lot about their designs that I dislike, especially regarding their iPod classic - but they at least understand what they're supposed to be doing. Most estimates are that about 95% percent of downloads are free so that would make about 50M apps sold. Apologies for saying "sold". You're right. I happen to think that 50M sales are very impressive nonetheless. I also don't think that free downloads are as easy to come by as you seem to think. Most people are averse to downloading software. I don't download free things to my cell phone, and I'm a geek. That Apple has made app downloading as simplified as they have is a testament to their systems. Wow you iPhone guys sure are sensitive. Of course other platforms that actually allow you to install software without the approval of their 'app store' can't trumpet numbers like these cause they don't know about every single app their users are installing. It's called freedom. I'll assume you've heard all the counterarguments I want to provide right now, and simply choose to ignore them. If you want to be an ass online you're allowed.
- dejb 17y ago
  > I'll assume you've heard all the counterarguments I want to provide right now, and simply choose to ignore them. No I'm not ignoring them. I've heard them, understood them and disagree. > If you want to be an ass online you're allowed. So the fact that I hold a contrary opinion is being an ass?
  - zimbabwe 17y ago
    So the fact that I hold a contrary opinion is being an ass? No. The fact that you responded snottily makes you an ass. You're allowed to disagree, but it irks me when people get smug over a difference of opinion.
    - dejb 17y ago
      Well I find attitude of many Apple fans to be smug and snotty. That total assumption of unrivalled superiority is reflected in your comments > Certain designers have tried to catch up to Apple for a decade, now. > So far, no competitor has arisen to match the iPhone. But of course you aren't just an unsophisticated Apple fanboy. No. You are uniquely positioned to see where Apple are going wrong as well. But they.. > at least understand what they're supposed to be doing. To me this represents smugness. Some people see the quality of 'smugness' as being magnified by correctness (i.e. the number of apps sold). I actually see it as being magnified by overconfidence in unsupported positions (most of your statements). If anyone is being ass it is you.
      - zimbabwe 17y ago
        That total assumption of unrivalled superiority is reflected in your comments There is no phone that has as much popular attention as the iPhone. Not the Palm Pre or the Blackberry Storm or Google's Android, and those are the closest competitors at the moment. That's not just because Apple has a good publicity machine. It's because they're the company that changed the game with their phone, and no company has yet to come out from under their shadow. Certain designers have tried to catch up to Apple for a decade, now. If you would like, I can spend a few hours fully documenting just what makes OS X better than Windows from a designer's perspective. I rather hoped that the arguments of operating system were at least settled from a viewpoint of designer quality. If you want to argue about Apple's being a closed and expensive system, go ahead, and there are good points to be made there, but if you have an aesthetics-focused bone in your body don't attempt to argue with just how superb OS X is until there's a decent competitor. To me this represents smugness. Apple designs systems that get out of your way, and that make tasks beautiful. The two other companies being mentioned on this thread are Microsoft and Google. Neither one has that same set of policies. Google is focused on "optimization," which is kind of a bullshit term when you take it as far as their company takes it. Microsoft... I don't know what Microsoft's design philosophy is, but it's a bad one. It baffles me every time they reveal a new system. Apple, meanwhile, has somehow managed to keep their minimalist aesthetic central for a decade now. That represents such a long length of time that I'm convinced Apple actually means to be minimalist and elegant, and that none of their designs are flukes. (Even their mediocre designs, such as Safari 4, have a few brilliant ideas apiece - in Safari 4, it's the grayed-out menu that shows which of your tabs are onscreen and not.) So my comment was saying this: Apple is not perfect, and right now they have parts of their company that to an outsider seem completely batshit insane, but those are isolated parts; the company as a whole is still healthier than any other tech company out there. But of course you aren't just an unsophisticated Apple fanboy. If anyone is being ass it is you. Here's why I'm calling you an ass. It's not that you disagree with me, or that you dislike Apple. It's that in the middle of presenting your argument you feel the need to insert snide comments referring to me as an Apple fanboy. So from your original comment: Wow you iPhone guys sure are sensitive. They may want to ask themselves 'just what has happened to my critical faculties with regards to the iphone'. If I responded to you calling you a crude unsophisticate because you don't appreciate Apple's philosophy, then I'd be an ass as well. As it is, I think that Apple's products are the best in the market, and certainly the most critically popular. But when I make that argument, it's made without insulting people that don't use Apple products. You chose to take potshots at me while making your specious arguments, which you still have spent no time backing up, and so you're an asshole. But I won't kid myself into thinking you didn't know that. So this discussion is over.
potatolicious 17y ago
> It's called freedom. Something consumers have, IMHO, overwhelmingly proven that they do not demand from their cell phones. The tech industry if full of people building products for themselves, as opposed to the people they are trying to sell to. This obsession with CPU and RAM specifications, open access, etc, is just a symptom of this.
- dejb 17y ago
  > Something consumers have, IMHO, overwhelmingly proven that they do not demand from their cell phones. I think you are generalising from one case. I'm sure when the Model T ford was the best seller people would have been arguing along similar lines. > The tech industry if full of people building products for themselves, as opposed to the people they are trying to sell to. This obsession with CPU and RAM specifications, open access, etc, is just a symptom of this. Time and time again people have predicted that ordinary people will have no use for certain technical features. Right from personal computers through to the internet and mobile phones they have been consistently been proven wrong. Remember Bill Gates 'Nobody will ever need more than 640k RAM!'? Of course most users just want 'better stuff' but thinking that this is going to result from reversion to a unipolar 'Model T' type marketplace is, in my view, mistaken.

by dejb 17y ago

zimbabwe 17y ago

The Mac in 84 onwards was run by a man who thought Apple had to sacrifice its design integrity to succeed. Since then it has been placed back in Jobs' hands, and he's taken a decade to fill it with people who believe in his design philosophy. Note that the iPod has maintained its virtual monopoly thanks to design alone. So far, no competitor has arisen to match the iPhone. I'd love it if one appeared, but it hasn't happened so far. You seem to think that design progress is a given. Look at Microsoft for the counterexample. They have progressed their design several major times since Windows 95, and each one has taken steps back. The fact that window borders are now twice as huge as they were a decade ago, or that gradients have been added where gradients are not needed, makes me think that the people designing Windows simply don't know what about Apple's design appeals to people. Phone design seems similarly hedged. I play with every major phone that comes out, because I want somebody to get Apple scared enough to turn more competitive. So far, nothing done. I don't know why companies feel the need to place meaningless gradients for backgrounds, or shade things in pretty ways that reduce functionality, but they all do, and they seem to think it's helping. Apple's not perfect here - there's a lot about their designs that I dislike, especially regarding their iPod classic - but they at least understand what they're supposed to be doing. Most estimates are that about 95% percent of downloads are free so that would make about 50M apps sold. Apologies for saying "sold". You're right. I happen to think that 50M sales are very impressive nonetheless. I also don't think that free downloads are as easy to come by as you seem to think. Most people are averse to downloading software. I don't download free things to my cell phone, and I'm a geek. That Apple has made app downloading as simplified as they have is a testament to their systems. Wow you iPhone guys sure are sensitive. Of course other platforms that actually allow you to install software without the approval of their 'app store' can't trumpet numbers like these cause they don't know about every single app their users are installing. It's called freedom. I'll assume you've heard all the counterarguments I want to provide right now, and simply choose to ignore them. If you want to be an ass online you're allowed.

dejb 17y ago
> I'll assume you've heard all the counterarguments I want to provide right now, and simply choose to ignore them. No I'm not ignoring them. I've heard them, understood them and disagree. > If you want to be an ass online you're allowed. So the fact that I hold a contrary opinion is being an ass?
- zimbabwe 17y ago
  So the fact that I hold a contrary opinion is being an ass? No. The fact that you responded snottily makes you an ass. You're allowed to disagree, but it irks me when people get smug over a difference of opinion.
  - dejb 17y ago
    Well I find attitude of many Apple fans to be smug and snotty. That total assumption of unrivalled superiority is reflected in your comments > Certain designers have tried to catch up to Apple for a decade, now. > So far, no competitor has arisen to match the iPhone. But of course you aren't just an unsophisticated Apple fanboy. No. You are uniquely positioned to see where Apple are going wrong as well. But they.. > at least understand what they're supposed to be doing. To me this represents smugness. Some people see the quality of 'smugness' as being magnified by correctness (i.e. the number of apps sold). I actually see it as being magnified by overconfidence in unsupported positions (most of your statements). If anyone is being ass it is you.
    - zimbabwe 17y ago
      That total assumption of unrivalled superiority is reflected in your comments There is no phone that has as much popular attention as the iPhone. Not the Palm Pre or the Blackberry Storm or Google's Android, and those are the closest competitors at the moment. That's not just because Apple has a good publicity machine. It's because they're the company that changed the game with their phone, and no company has yet to come out from under their shadow. Certain designers have tried to catch up to Apple for a decade, now. If you would like, I can spend a few hours fully documenting just what makes OS X better than Windows from a designer's perspective. I rather hoped that the arguments of operating system were at least settled from a viewpoint of designer quality. If you want to argue about Apple's being a closed and expensive system, go ahead, and there are good points to be made there, but if you have an aesthetics-focused bone in your body don't attempt to argue with just how superb OS X is until there's a decent competitor. To me this represents smugness. Apple designs systems that get out of your way, and that make tasks beautiful. The two other companies being mentioned on this thread are Microsoft and Google. Neither one has that same set of policies. Google is focused on "optimization," which is kind of a bullshit term when you take it as far as their company takes it. Microsoft... I don't know what Microsoft's design philosophy is, but it's a bad one. It baffles me every time they reveal a new system. Apple, meanwhile, has somehow managed to keep their minimalist aesthetic central for a decade now. That represents such a long length of time that I'm convinced Apple actually means to be minimalist and elegant, and that none of their designs are flukes. (Even their mediocre designs, such as Safari 4, have a few brilliant ideas apiece - in Safari 4, it's the grayed-out menu that shows which of your tabs are onscreen and not.) So my comment was saying this: Apple is not perfect, and right now they have parts of their company that to an outsider seem completely batshit insane, but those are isolated parts; the company as a whole is still healthier than any other tech company out there. But of course you aren't just an unsophisticated Apple fanboy. If anyone is being ass it is you. Here's why I'm calling you an ass. It's not that you disagree with me, or that you dislike Apple. It's that in the middle of presenting your argument you feel the need to insert snide comments referring to me as an Apple fanboy. So from your original comment: Wow you iPhone guys sure are sensitive. They may want to ask themselves 'just what has happened to my critical faculties with regards to the iphone'. If I responded to you calling you a crude unsophisticate because you don't appreciate Apple's philosophy, then I'd be an ass as well. As it is, I think that Apple's products are the best in the market, and certainly the most critically popular. But when I make that argument, it's made without insulting people that don't use Apple products. You chose to take potshots at me while making your specious arguments, which you still have spent no time backing up, and so you're an asshole. But I won't kid myself into thinking you didn't know that. So this discussion is over.

potatolicious 17y ago

> It's called freedom. Something consumers have, IMHO, overwhelmingly proven that they do not demand from their cell phones. The tech industry if full of people building products for themselves, as opposed to the people they are trying to sell to. This obsession with CPU and RAM specifications, open access, etc, is just a symptom of this.

dejb 17y ago
> Something consumers have, IMHO, overwhelmingly proven that they do not demand from their cell phones. I think you are generalising from one case. I'm sure when the Model T ford was the best seller people would have been arguing along similar lines. > The tech industry if full of people building products for themselves, as opposed to the people they are trying to sell to. This obsession with CPU and RAM specifications, open access, etc, is just a symptom of this. Time and time again people have predicted that ordinary people will have no use for certain technical features. Right from personal computers through to the internet and mobile phones they have been consistently been proven wrong. Remember Bill Gates 'Nobody will ever need more than 640k RAM!'? Of course most users just want 'better stuff' but thinking that this is going to result from reversion to a unipolar 'Model T' type marketplace is, in my view, mistaken.