4 ms·

The Google Bus isn't the main issue, it's just a convenient and highly visible lightning rod. The class war that's happening in SF goes much, much deeper and ha

The Google Bus isn't the main issue, it's just a convenient and highly visible lightning rod. The class war that's happening in SF goes much, much deeper and has much more profound impact on people than just a bunch of buses zipping around town. But most of these issues aren't nearly as viscerally visual and high-profile as an exclusive "you can't get on" bus fleet. It's simply an incredibly in-your-face reminder of everything else that is wrong with San Francisco. > "I find this particularly hilarious because I would argue that ride-share companies are exactly the tech companies who are working on real problems." As someone who lived in SF, and now lives in NYC, I find this statement sad yet hilarious. Uber and Lyft exist because of a fundamental dysfunction in Bay Area transit. Lyft isn't even a thing here in NYC, and Uber is barely on anyone's radar - because we have working mass transit. These are only "real problems" because MUNI and BART represent the transit savviness of a wet paper bag. I used to spend more than a NYC subway monthly pass's cost on Ubers when I lived in SF every month, because the transit in that city is so utterly and completely fucked. Even among my social circles of relatively-highly-paid tech-workers, none of us have used Uber more than once or twice. To be blunt, Uber and Lyft are solutions to the problem that San Francisco can't get its shit together to save its life. Others in this thread mention that if the investment made in private company shuttles were poured into the public transit system then everyone could benefit. It would be nice, but I don't think this is actually true - the problem with MUNI, Caltrain, and BART isn't due to lack of funding, it's due to extensive corruption and mismanagement. At the agency level, at the municipality level, and at the regional level. Google could've thrown truckloads of cash at them and it would've disappeared into the ether with little to show for it. I don't blame Google, Facebook, and Apple for running their own shuttles. It was the most rational, least evil choice in response to a fundamental governmental dysfunction. The protest against the growing divide is a red herring - the divide largely exists and is perpetuated by a woefully incompetent and corrupt city government. There is a growing collection of startups whose primary purpose is fixing SF/Bay Area dysfunction - Uber and Lyft being among them. I'm disappointed at how revolutionary people seem to think they are, when they seem more like they're solving problems that shouldn't exist in a competent, working city, in a highly exclusive and upmarket way. Transportation is horrifyingly broken and people can't get around? Solution: upmarket shiny black sedans priced completely out of reach for everyone except the monied techno-elite. It may be necessary, but forgive me if I don't cheer loudly. At the risk of making a crappy analogy, the roof is leaking and you're congratulating the guy who came along and put some buckets on the floor.

thwarted 13y ago
But most of these issues aren't nearly as viscerally visual and high-profile as an exclusive "you can't get on" bus fleet. It's simply an incredibly in-your-face reminder of everything else that is wrong with San Francisco. Are people really envious and want to ride a bus that goes to one place in effectively the middle of nowhere where there is a business park they have no business being at? A lot of things are exclusive, people's cars and residences are some of those. There may be a divide, but no one is complaining they don't get to go inside someone else's house whenever they want, and if they did, they wouldn't be taken seriously. I'm not sure this is the actual reason or the message you mean to portray.
teek 13y ago
You can blame government for the dysfunction, but I wouldn't be quick to completely blame local government for the stalls in public transit development. The majority of NYC subway development occurred prior to the introduction of environmental policies such as NEPA (1970). In fact since 1956, NYC has only constructed 2 additional subway lines (1988, 1989) and currently has one more under construction. Meanwhile SF BART didn't start operations until 1972. In fact I believe if BART didn't start planning and construction prior to national environmental policy implementation, BART may have never been built. If we look overseas, since 1970, Tokyo opened 6 subway lines (4 Tokyo Metro, 2 Toei subway--Tokyo has two subway companies). While that doesn't seem like much of a difference, consider that those subway lines directly compete with surface rail transit systems operated by 8 different companies which are "feeder" lines and additional JR which not only is a feeder system, but also operates the main loop line for Tokyo. It should also be noted that NEPA was actually a direct response to the Interstate Highway project where a common complaint was residents losing their communities or properties due to highway being paved right through the city. But NEPA requires environmental reviews for any new development so mass transit systems were affected as well. So I would say the dysfunctional is not just at the city or state level, but also at the federal level as well.

thwarted 13y ago

But most of these issues aren't nearly as viscerally visual and high-profile as an exclusive "you can't get on" bus fleet. It's simply an incredibly in-your-face reminder of everything else that is wrong with San Francisco. Are people really envious and want to ride a bus that goes to one place in effectively the middle of nowhere where there is a business park they have no business being at? A lot of things are exclusive, people's cars and residences are some of those. There may be a divide, but no one is complaining they don't get to go inside someone else's house whenever they want, and if they did, they wouldn't be taken seriously. I'm not sure this is the actual reason or the message you mean to portray.

teek 13y ago

You can blame government for the dysfunction, but I wouldn't be quick to completely blame local government for the stalls in public transit development. The majority of NYC subway development occurred prior to the introduction of environmental policies such as NEPA (1970). In fact since 1956, NYC has only constructed 2 additional subway lines (1988, 1989) and currently has one more under construction. Meanwhile SF BART didn't start operations until 1972. In fact I believe if BART didn't start planning and construction prior to national environmental policy implementation, BART may have never been built. If we look overseas, since 1970, Tokyo opened 6 subway lines (4 Tokyo Metro, 2 Toei subway--Tokyo has two subway companies). While that doesn't seem like much of a difference, consider that those subway lines directly compete with surface rail transit systems operated by 8 different companies which are "feeder" lines and additional JR which not only is a feeder system, but also operates the main loop line for Tokyo. It should also be noted that NEPA was actually a direct response to the Interstate Highway project where a common complaint was residents losing their communities or properties due to highway being paved right through the city. But NEPA requires environmental reviews for any new development so mass transit systems were affected as well. So I would say the dysfunctional is not just at the city or state level, but also at the federal level as well.