7 ms·

A Year and a Half With a Nissan Leaf (Part 2): The Summer Drive

63 points by koblenski 13y ago

TheAnimus 13y ago
>putting the air on for a few minutes will cost about 1-2 miles per minute until the cabin cools down. .... >Having a battery-powered air conditioner beats a gas-powered one hands down. 1-2 miles per min loss? Often I find it takes about 5+ min to cool my car down on a hot day, in a city like London you don't really want to wind the windows down either. If I'm going to try and be environmentally friendly, and healthy, you know what, I'll cycle that 11 mile each way commute of yours (hell my current one is ~30miles a day). I can't help but feel this is an attempt to justify a technology which simply isn't ready yet. The range of the leaf isn't enough to compete with a car, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing a 30mile each way commute unless I could guarantee a charging place at the other end. Now the model S on the other hand, that's a different story.
- koblenski 13y ago
  Well, that's 1-2 miles per minute if you don't run the A/C continuously. If you were to keep the cabin at a climate controlled temperature, the Leaf normally estimates ~10% reduction in range. I'm not sure how true that is because I've never needed to do it. A couple 1-minute blasts is plenty to get me home comfortably. I do agree that the Leaf could benefit from more range, of course. Although it should be able to handle your commute in the summer without an extra charge. In the winter it would be a stretch, especially with the heater running. The Tesla is an awesome car, if you can afford it.
- ssmoot 13y ago
  I've had a Leaf since (I think?) April in Dallas, TX. So there's been very little time I _haven't_ run the car with the A/C on. I could be proven wrong, but it doesn't feel anywhere near that bad. Also, it has to work a lot harder in 100F+ heat. It's a really good system, but it's also a relatively small cabin. Compared to my previous Jeep Grand Cherokee or Volvos it's performance isn't really noteworthy. It's definitely not worse, but I'd be hard pressed to claim it's substantially better either. My commute to the office is 5 miles each way. So the Leaf is about perfect for me. I still take the 20+ mile trip (each way) downtown, or up to the suburbs to visit friends on weekends without any worries. Another guy at the office who also has a Leaf has a 30 mile commute (each way), and he's also on the trickle charger. A few close calls early on, but he seemed to adjust to it pretty quick. BTW, 60 miles round trip is pretty extraordinary for a commute. Even in the sprawling sub-sub-suburbs of TX. I'd guess that the Leaf would work fine for more people than not on a commuting basis. But that's just my gut. The only frustrating thing I've run into is the high cost of DC Quick Charger subscriptions (none of the ones deployed around here are pay-by-the-minute, you have to be a member). I didn't drop a $200/month gas bill just to pay $80/month for a Quick Charger membership I'd only use once a month at best. It might be worth it if there were any quick-chargers between Dallas and Houston so I could visit family in Galveston, but there's absolutely nothing, and even if the state gets around to putting Level2 chargers in at rest-stops, who's going to want to stop twice for 4 hours each at rest-stops along the way? That'd turn a 5 hour trip into 14. So we take my wife's SUV instead. As a two-car family with a short commute the Leaf really isn't much of a compromise at all. I'm about to buy a Level2 charger for home, but it's not really necessary. It's more about once-in-a-blue-moon convenience of a very busy weekend and getting to leave the SUV in the driveway. Plus the 30a chargers are (I gather) a lot more efficient than the trickle charger.
- taway2012 13y ago
  > ... can't help but feel this is an attempt to justify a technology which simply isn't ready yet Statistically speaking, such long commutes are unusual. However comments like this create the impression that an electric car with ~80 miles range is a toy. I think 80 mile range is plenty for a commuter car. Only 15% of commuters have one-way commutes longer than 30 miles, according to http://www.statisticbrain.com/commute-statistics/ http://www.statisticbrain.com/commute-statistics/. Just my two cents.
- pkulak 13y ago
  > If I'm going to try and be environmentally friendly, and healthy, you know what, I'll cycle that 11 mile each way commute of yours (hell my current one is ~30miles a day). Oh, get over yourself. Some people like cars. I commute to work every day on a bike too, and you know what, my family _also_ owns a car. How am I going to get my 6-month-old to his doctor's appointment with a bike? That would need a bus or a cab. No thank you. Bike's aren't appropriate for everything, but this car will take care of everything you need it to as long as you don't leave the city with it. I don't really like leaving the city. But for the rare time I'd need to, I'm sure renting a Lexus with the gas savings would be acceptable.
starwagon 13y ago
Nickelback.
- nsxwolf 13y ago
  I thought it was brave.
- johlindenbaum 13y ago
  Sets the tone of legitimacy for the article. OP can't be trusted. :P
- maxmem 13y ago
  I read the same thing "I can hear every note, whether it's from a guitar in Nickelback or a violin in an orchestra." Cringed.
taway2012 13y ago
I frequently find Nissan Leafs driving very slowly (45 mph in the middle lane on the freeway, 30 mph in a 45 zone in the left lane). And they accelerate very slowly from traffic lights, clogging traffic behind them. Does the car itself suck or is it the drivers or is it a UI bug in the car that encourages people to drive it like that.
- koblenski 13y ago
  I imagine it's the tree game. The Leaf builds a pine tree next to the speedometer, and you can complete up to 5 trees by driving as eco-friendly as possible. Then you can upload the trees you build through the car's internet connection to compete on a leaderboard with other Leaf owners. I don't participate. I figure I'm already doing my part to save the environment, and the measly extra kWh I'd save in a month by driving like that isn't worth it. I'd rather have some fun. I do drive 55 on the beltline, but that's the speed limit. I'd only get to my destination a minute faster by going 60. There's nothing about the car itself that limits driving normally. Even in ECO mode all of the acceleration is there. It's just farther up the accelerator.
- woof 13y ago
  The car is great, so you can blame driver ignorance and stupidity... * Slow acceleration can use more energy than "normal" acceleration (engine efficiency). * 45mph is a good speed in an EV (faster results in too much drag) * 35mph gives relativly little more range than 45mph
  - nsxwolf 13y ago
    So us non-Leaf motorists have to treat the Leaf like a bicycle in traffic instead of a real car?
    - woof 13y ago
      Yes -a bicycle with better acelleration than most cars and a top speed of 90mph
lumberjack 13y ago
He talks about a CVT which would be super cool especially in an EV but while Nissan does offer a CVT option for their other cars I don't think the Leaf comes with any such options.
- koblenski 13y ago
  Nissan calls it a single-speed reduction gear, and it's standard on all Leafs. I guess it's not technically a CVT, but the concept is similar.
  - sokoloff 13y ago
    In what way is it similar? The electric motor has the wide range of speeds available, and the gearing is completely fixed. Completely fixed vs continuously variable seem about as far apart as it gets in my mind.
    - koblenski 13y ago
      What I meant was that in both cases there is essentially one gear, but I see you're point. CVT can be thought of as infinitely many gear ratios and the Leaf's is only one. I updated the article, so hopefully it's more clear.
- johngalt 13y ago
  The leaf doesn't have a transmission in the traditional sense. Just a single gear ratio from the motor to the wheels.
pkorzeniewski 13y ago
I'm all for eletric cars and I find Tesla an amazing car, but I'll never understand why people buy cars like Nissan Leaf or Prius. They're ugly, slow and expensive. I feel like the only reason to buy them is just for the sake of having a "green" car.
- woof 13y ago
  Those bloody tree huggers in those green cars, who do they think they are? So they can use renewable energy and their engines are energy efficient -but who cares?
  - nsxwolf 13y ago
    The Leaf appeals to tree huggers. The Tesla appeals to practically everyone else. There's an important lesson there.
    - Retric 13y ago
      The tesla is way to expencive for most people to actually buy, even if it looks cool.
      - nsxwolf 13y ago
        The point is, everyone wishes they could buy one. It's the best reviewed car in history. Nobody in the non-tree hugging camp wants a Leaf even if they can afford it.
- mercutio2 13y ago
  > They're ugly It's challenging to find an objective arbiter of taste on cars. I happen to like the look. > slow I presume you mean something like "doesn't have as much power (and thus less acceleration) as my preferred style of car". That may well be true, but it's completely irrelevant to me how fast a car accelerates. Most of my time is spent at the speed limit (+8mph). > and expensive Well that is just ill informed. Prius consistently comes out on top (it's the cheapest) on total cost of ownership studies. And that's in the US, with its ridiculously low gas tax. The relative cheapness of a Prius is much more obvious in cultures that don't abhor Pigovian taxation.
nsxwolf 13y ago
You have to let the battery cool before charging it? Can't the charger just wait until the battery is cool? That kind of inconvenience would be a deal breaker for me. I'd make a mental note to go back into the garage in an hour, but ultimately I'd forget to charge it.
- koblenski 13y ago
  No, you can set the battery charge timer that's part of the car UI so that it charges at a specific time after you know it will be cool. Having said that, I used to charge immediately after driving, and it didn't cause any problems. Nissan just recommends it if you want to marginally improve your battery life, so I set my timer a half hour later.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 13y ago
    That's ridiculous; the charger should be smart enough to not attempt to charge the battery if it's too hot. Even some old NiCd and NiMh chargers had that functionality. At the very least it should inhibit the charge and offer you the opportunity to override that.
    - koblenski 13y ago
      The on-board charger is that smart. If you're charging off of a 440V quick charger and the battery gets too hot, it will shut off, and the car will send you an email telling you what happened if you've added an email address in the car's settings. In other cases with a 110V or 220V charger, it's highly unlikely that the battery will ever be too hot to charge unless it's 120F outside and you've been pushing the car hard. Look, it really is a minor issue that never crossed my mind until I came across the recommendation in the manual recently. It probably will impact the battery's life only slightly, but it's easy to change the timer and start charging a bit later. It's certainly true that any heat a battery sees will contribute to its degradation, especially while charging because that also generates heat. I figured I'd pass along the recommendation as an additional way to take good care of the very expensive battery.
    - 13y ago
tocomment 13y ago
I have a commute that's 50 miles each way. And I have 3-4 hours at the destination with possible access to a wall plug. I've been wondering for a while if the Leaf would be feasible for this? It seems just a tad out of its stated range. But it would save a ton of gas money! Does anyone have any advice?
- adamkittelson 13y ago
  I don't own a Leaf, but I do own a Volt. Assuming rate of charging is comparable I'd say you'd be taking a risk if you only have a wall plug at your destination. I'd be a lot more comfortable if you had access to a 240v charging station for that 3-4 hour span. Also I've run into more than a few wall plugs that weren't up to snuff according to my charging adapter so there's some risk there too. I wouldn't recommend buying a Leaf for your situation unless you were able to rent / borrow one and do your commute with it for at least a few days (preferably in unfavorable temperatures if your climate has them) to be sure it'll work out.
- koblenski 13y ago
  The guy that I mentioned in the article that put 78,000 miles on his Leaf has a 65-mile each way commute, and that was in Washington state with cold winters. You might be able to do it, but you'll probably need a 220V charger at your destination to charge up completely for the drive home. The 2013 Leaf is more efficient so it would do better than my 2012, but it really depends on the climate and geography in your area and how fast you drive. You'll lose charge faster at 65+mph freeway speeds because of drag.
schreiaj 13y ago
A couple minor factual inaccuracies. > Where the electric motor really delivers is in torque - 210 ft-lbs of it. And not only that, electric motors deliver the same torque over most of their speed range, starting at 0rpm. Uh, no. Electric motors don't work that way. They produce their max torque at 0 rpm and it decreases from there. This is also the point where it generates the most heat and uses the most current. >You step on the accelerator, and the car instantly goes. It's a combination of the torque in the electric motor and the CVT (continuously variable transmission). No documentation I have found states it has a CVT. Most sources I've found say it has a single speed with a reduction of 7.94:1. -Edit- But the statement about the torque is very much true. It is a significant benefit of electrics over ICE. Aside these, I'm looking forward to hearing how this car performs in the winter. I want to know if I can recommend this car to my mother back in Michigan.
- koblenski 13y ago
  > They produce their max torque at 0 rpm and it decreases from there. That's true in an unregulated motor, but Nissan electronically regulates the motor so the torque isn't ridiculous at 0rpm. The torque curve ends up being flat over most of the range, and it seems to start falling off around 50mph. I haven't seen a plot, so that's just my impression. I can see how the wording is incorrect, so I modified it to refer specifically to the Leaf's motor. > No documentation I have found states it has a CVT. You're right. Fixed.
  - schreiaj 13y ago
    Thanks. Do you have any information about this regulation? I'd like to learn more about how it works.
    - koblenski 13y ago
      I'm having difficulty finding articles specific to the Leaf's motor, but there's a nice explanation for EV motors in general here: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/why-do-electric-motors-have-constant-55282.html http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/why-do-e... Basically, the motor controller limits the current below its maximum so the amount of torque output will remain constant until it drops below the current limit. There's an explanation of different current limiting methods here: http://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/current.html http://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/current.html The Leaf's controller likely uses an active current limiting method, and there's a lot of advances in this technology right now. That's where a lot of the motor efficiency improvements are coming from. Surprisingly, I can't find much good info on Wikipedia, but I'm probably not using the right search terms.
jhowell 13y ago
Loving my Leaf as well. It does suck when you're out and you want to go to another bar across town, but are not confident in the round trip, but that would be the case even if I have 10,000 mile range. At some point, knowing me, I am only going to have 9,985 miles left and want to go to the other side of town. The thing I like most is the acceleration. I had a 300hp sports car before the Leaf and prefer the Leaf's acceleration much more. My ego does miss my last car though.
secabeen 13y ago
Great write-up on the LEAF. I recently leased a Chevy Spark EV, which is smaller and cheaper than the LEAF, with twice the torque. Unfortunately, only available in California and Oregon, but I'd strongly recommend it to anyone who can handle the size.

63 points by koblenski 13y ago

>putting the air on for a few minutes will cost about 1-2 miles per minute until the cabin cools down. .... >Having a battery-powered air conditioner beats a gas-powered one hands down. 1-2 miles per min loss? Often I find it takes about 5+ min to cool my car down on a hot day, in a city like London you don't really want to wind the windows down either. If I'm going to try and be environmentally friendly, and healthy, you know what, I'll cycle that 11 mile each way commute of yours (hell my current one is ~30miles a day). I can't help but feel this is an attempt to justify a technology which simply isn't ready yet. The range of the leaf isn't enough to compete with a car, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing a 30mile each way commute unless I could guarantee a charging place at the other end. Now the model S on the other hand, that's a different story.

koblenski 13y ago
Well, that's 1-2 miles per minute if you don't run the A/C continuously. If you were to keep the cabin at a climate controlled temperature, the Leaf normally estimates ~10% reduction in range. I'm not sure how true that is because I've never needed to do it. A couple 1-minute blasts is plenty to get me home comfortably. I do agree that the Leaf could benefit from more range, of course. Although it should be able to handle your commute in the summer without an extra charge. In the winter it would be a stretch, especially with the heater running. The Tesla is an awesome car, if you can afford it.
ssmoot 13y ago
I've had a Leaf since (I think?) April in Dallas, TX. So there's been very little time I _haven't_ run the car with the A/C on. I could be proven wrong, but it doesn't feel anywhere near that bad. Also, it has to work a lot harder in 100F+ heat. It's a really good system, but it's also a relatively small cabin. Compared to my previous Jeep Grand Cherokee or Volvos it's performance isn't really noteworthy. It's definitely not worse, but I'd be hard pressed to claim it's substantially better either. My commute to the office is 5 miles each way. So the Leaf is about perfect for me. I still take the 20+ mile trip (each way) downtown, or up to the suburbs to visit friends on weekends without any worries. Another guy at the office who also has a Leaf has a 30 mile commute (each way), and he's also on the trickle charger. A few close calls early on, but he seemed to adjust to it pretty quick. BTW, 60 miles round trip is pretty extraordinary for a commute. Even in the sprawling sub-sub-suburbs of TX. I'd guess that the Leaf would work fine for more people than not on a commuting basis. But that's just my gut. The only frustrating thing I've run into is the high cost of DC Quick Charger subscriptions (none of the ones deployed around here are pay-by-the-minute, you have to be a member). I didn't drop a $200/month gas bill just to pay $80/month for a Quick Charger membership I'd only use once a month at best. It might be worth it if there were any quick-chargers between Dallas and Houston so I could visit family in Galveston, but there's absolutely nothing, and even if the state gets around to putting Level2 chargers in at rest-stops, who's going to want to stop twice for 4 hours each at rest-stops along the way? That'd turn a 5 hour trip into 14. So we take my wife's SUV instead. As a two-car family with a short commute the Leaf really isn't much of a compromise at all. I'm about to buy a Level2 charger for home, but it's not really necessary. It's more about once-in-a-blue-moon convenience of a very busy weekend and getting to leave the SUV in the driveway. Plus the 30a chargers are (I gather) a lot more efficient than the trickle charger.
taway2012 13y ago
> ... can't help but feel this is an attempt to justify a technology which simply isn't ready yet Statistically speaking, such long commutes are unusual. However comments like this create the impression that an electric car with ~80 miles range is a toy. I think 80 mile range is plenty for a commuter car. Only 15% of commuters have one-way commutes longer than 30 miles, according to http://www.statisticbrain.com/commute-statistics/ http://www.statisticbrain.com/commute-statistics/. Just my two cents.
pkulak 13y ago
> If I'm going to try and be environmentally friendly, and healthy, you know what, I'll cycle that 11 mile each way commute of yours (hell my current one is ~30miles a day). Oh, get over yourself. Some people like cars. I commute to work every day on a bike too, and you know what, my family _also_ owns a car. How am I going to get my 6-month-old to his doctor's appointment with a bike? That would need a bus or a cab. No thank you. Bike's aren't appropriate for everything, but this car will take care of everything you need it to as long as you don't leave the city with it. I don't really like leaving the city. But for the rare time I'd need to, I'm sure renting a Lexus with the gas savings would be acceptable.

starwagon 13y ago

Nickelback.

nsxwolf 13y ago
I thought it was brave.
johlindenbaum 13y ago
Sets the tone of legitimacy for the article. OP can't be trusted. :P
maxmem 13y ago
I read the same thing "I can hear every note, whether it's from a guitar in Nickelback or a violin in an orchestra." Cringed.

taway2012 13y ago

I frequently find Nissan Leafs driving very slowly (45 mph in the middle lane on the freeway, 30 mph in a 45 zone in the left lane). And they accelerate very slowly from traffic lights, clogging traffic behind them. Does the car itself suck or is it the drivers or is it a UI bug in the car that encourages people to drive it like that.

koblenski 13y ago
I imagine it's the tree game. The Leaf builds a pine tree next to the speedometer, and you can complete up to 5 trees by driving as eco-friendly as possible. Then you can upload the trees you build through the car's internet connection to compete on a leaderboard with other Leaf owners. I don't participate. I figure I'm already doing my part to save the environment, and the measly extra kWh I'd save in a month by driving like that isn't worth it. I'd rather have some fun. I do drive 55 on the beltline, but that's the speed limit. I'd only get to my destination a minute faster by going 60. There's nothing about the car itself that limits driving normally. Even in ECO mode all of the acceleration is there. It's just farther up the accelerator.
woof 13y ago
The car is great, so you can blame driver ignorance and stupidity... * Slow acceleration can use more energy than "normal" acceleration (engine efficiency). * 45mph is a good speed in an EV (faster results in too much drag) * 35mph gives relativly little more range than 45mph
- nsxwolf 13y ago
  So us non-Leaf motorists have to treat the Leaf like a bicycle in traffic instead of a real car?
  - woof 13y ago
    Yes -a bicycle with better acelleration than most cars and a top speed of 90mph

lumberjack 13y ago

He talks about a CVT which would be super cool especially in an EV but while Nissan does offer a CVT option for their other cars I don't think the Leaf comes with any such options.

koblenski 13y ago
Nissan calls it a single-speed reduction gear, and it's standard on all Leafs. I guess it's not technically a CVT, but the concept is similar.
- sokoloff 13y ago
  In what way is it similar? The electric motor has the wide range of speeds available, and the gearing is completely fixed. Completely fixed vs continuously variable seem about as far apart as it gets in my mind.
  - koblenski 13y ago
    What I meant was that in both cases there is essentially one gear, but I see you're point. CVT can be thought of as infinitely many gear ratios and the Leaf's is only one. I updated the article, so hopefully it's more clear.
johngalt 13y ago
The leaf doesn't have a transmission in the traditional sense. Just a single gear ratio from the motor to the wheels.

pkorzeniewski 13y ago

I'm all for eletric cars and I find Tesla an amazing car, but I'll never understand why people buy cars like Nissan Leaf or Prius. They're ugly, slow and expensive. I feel like the only reason to buy them is just for the sake of having a "green" car.

woof 13y ago
Those bloody tree huggers in those green cars, who do they think they are? So they can use renewable energy and their engines are energy efficient -but who cares?
- nsxwolf 13y ago
  The Leaf appeals to tree huggers. The Tesla appeals to practically everyone else. There's an important lesson there.
  - Retric 13y ago
    The tesla is way to expencive for most people to actually buy, even if it looks cool.
    - nsxwolf 13y ago
      The point is, everyone wishes they could buy one. It's the best reviewed car in history. Nobody in the non-tree hugging camp wants a Leaf even if they can afford it.
mercutio2 13y ago
> They're ugly It's challenging to find an objective arbiter of taste on cars. I happen to like the look. > slow I presume you mean something like "doesn't have as much power (and thus less acceleration) as my preferred style of car". That may well be true, but it's completely irrelevant to me how fast a car accelerates. Most of my time is spent at the speed limit (+8mph). > and expensive Well that is just ill informed. Prius consistently comes out on top (it's the cheapest) on total cost of ownership studies. And that's in the US, with its ridiculously low gas tax. The relative cheapness of a Prius is much more obvious in cultures that don't abhor Pigovian taxation.

nsxwolf 13y ago

You have to let the battery cool before charging it? Can't the charger just wait until the battery is cool? That kind of inconvenience would be a deal breaker for me. I'd make a mental note to go back into the garage in an hour, but ultimately I'd forget to charge it.

koblenski 13y ago
No, you can set the battery charge timer that's part of the car UI so that it charges at a specific time after you know it will be cool. Having said that, I used to charge immediately after driving, and it didn't cause any problems. Nissan just recommends it if you want to marginally improve your battery life, so I set my timer a half hour later.
- HeyLaughingBoy 13y ago
  That's ridiculous; the charger should be smart enough to not attempt to charge the battery if it's too hot. Even some old NiCd and NiMh chargers had that functionality. At the very least it should inhibit the charge and offer you the opportunity to override that.
  - koblenski 13y ago
    The on-board charger is that smart. If you're charging off of a 440V quick charger and the battery gets too hot, it will shut off, and the car will send you an email telling you what happened if you've added an email address in the car's settings. In other cases with a 110V or 220V charger, it's highly unlikely that the battery will ever be too hot to charge unless it's 120F outside and you've been pushing the car hard. Look, it really is a minor issue that never crossed my mind until I came across the recommendation in the manual recently. It probably will impact the battery's life only slightly, but it's easy to change the timer and start charging a bit later. It's certainly true that any heat a battery sees will contribute to its degradation, especially while charging because that also generates heat. I figured I'd pass along the recommendation as an additional way to take good care of the very expensive battery.
  - 13y ago

tocomment 13y ago

I have a commute that's 50 miles each way. And I have 3-4 hours at the destination with possible access to a wall plug. I've been wondering for a while if the Leaf would be feasible for this? It seems just a tad out of its stated range. But it would save a ton of gas money! Does anyone have any advice?

adamkittelson 13y ago
I don't own a Leaf, but I do own a Volt. Assuming rate of charging is comparable I'd say you'd be taking a risk if you only have a wall plug at your destination. I'd be a lot more comfortable if you had access to a 240v charging station for that 3-4 hour span. Also I've run into more than a few wall plugs that weren't up to snuff according to my charging adapter so there's some risk there too. I wouldn't recommend buying a Leaf for your situation unless you were able to rent / borrow one and do your commute with it for at least a few days (preferably in unfavorable temperatures if your climate has them) to be sure it'll work out.
koblenski 13y ago
The guy that I mentioned in the article that put 78,000 miles on his Leaf has a 65-mile each way commute, and that was in Washington state with cold winters. You might be able to do it, but you'll probably need a 220V charger at your destination to charge up completely for the drive home. The 2013 Leaf is more efficient so it would do better than my 2012, but it really depends on the climate and geography in your area and how fast you drive. You'll lose charge faster at 65+mph freeway speeds because of drag.

schreiaj 13y ago

A couple minor factual inaccuracies. > Where the electric motor really delivers is in torque - 210 ft-lbs of it. And not only that, electric motors deliver the same torque over most of their speed range, starting at 0rpm. Uh, no. Electric motors don't work that way. They produce their max torque at 0 rpm and it decreases from there. This is also the point where it generates the most heat and uses the most current. >You step on the accelerator, and the car instantly goes. It's a combination of the torque in the electric motor and the CVT (continuously variable transmission). No documentation I have found states it has a CVT. Most sources I've found say it has a single speed with a reduction of 7.94:1. -Edit- But the statement about the torque is very much true. It is a significant benefit of electrics over ICE. Aside these, I'm looking forward to hearing how this car performs in the winter. I want to know if I can recommend this car to my mother back in Michigan.

koblenski 13y ago
> They produce their max torque at 0 rpm and it decreases from there. That's true in an unregulated motor, but Nissan electronically regulates the motor so the torque isn't ridiculous at 0rpm. The torque curve ends up being flat over most of the range, and it seems to start falling off around 50mph. I haven't seen a plot, so that's just my impression. I can see how the wording is incorrect, so I modified it to refer specifically to the Leaf's motor. > No documentation I have found states it has a CVT. You're right. Fixed.
- schreiaj 13y ago
  Thanks. Do you have any information about this regulation? I'd like to learn more about how it works.
  - koblenski 13y ago
    I'm having difficulty finding articles specific to the Leaf's motor, but there's a nice explanation for EV motors in general here: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/why-do-electric-motors-have-constant-55282.html http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/why-do-e... Basically, the motor controller limits the current below its maximum so the amount of torque output will remain constant until it drops below the current limit. There's an explanation of different current limiting methods here: http://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/current.html http://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/current.html The Leaf's controller likely uses an active current limiting method, and there's a lot of advances in this technology right now. That's where a lot of the motor efficiency improvements are coming from. Surprisingly, I can't find much good info on Wikipedia, but I'm probably not using the right search terms.

jhowell 13y ago

Loving my Leaf as well. It does suck when you're out and you want to go to another bar across town, but are not confident in the round trip, but that would be the case even if I have 10,000 mile range. At some point, knowing me, I am only going to have 9,985 miles left and want to go to the other side of town. The thing I like most is the acceleration. I had a 300hp sports car before the Leaf and prefer the Leaf's acceleration much more. My ego does miss my last car though.

secabeen 13y ago

Great write-up on the LEAF. I recently leased a Chevy Spark EV, which is smaller and cheaper than the LEAF, with twice the torque. Unfortunately, only available in California and Oregon, but I'd strongly recommend it to anyone who can handle the size.