6 ms·
Google offering grants to women to attend tech conferences.
- ioquatix 13y agoIs this some kind of gender bias and is it appropriate?
- Peroni 13y agoTough question. I personally can't see how paying for a small group of women who essentially are winning a contest can even begin to encourage other women to attend tech events. If the grant was aimed at both genders but specifically for those who simply can't afford to attend these types of events then it would be significantly more appropriate. That, however, is just my opinion.
- walshemj 13y agoI think aimed at underrepresented groups in general would be a better idea BME and LGBT or example.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- rwmj 13y agoThere are plenty of body modifications on show at the tech conferences I've been to. As for LGBT, that's not usually a visible thing, unlike the massive gender imbalance (I actually went to a conference a month ago which was entirely 100% male).
- walshemj 13y agoWell I wanted to be inclusive and just because you have piercings doesn't make you gay BTW. I probably should have added caste and religion as well.
- sp332 13y agoMaybe just increasing the number of women visible at the conference will make the women feel like they're not alone in a crowd. Also having the men run into more women will remind them not to behave like it's a boys club.
- masklinn 13y agoAnd having more women attending opens conference organizers to the needs of women attendees, driving the possibility of less "pioneering" ones attending.
- brador 13y agoWhat are the needs of women attendes?
- masklinn 13y agoThings you'd think obvious (and which for the more part are also beneficial to men attendees but are traditionally rarely provided): unisex toilets or toilets as accessible & common for women as for men, safe-looking access to/from the venue, trained harassment officer, private spaces, no assumption of childlessness (children not being accepted should be made very clear from the outset, not an issue once the attendee reaches the venue or something which must be hunted for) and children accommodations if they are allowed (including parenting areas e.g. a place for feeding and changing children), clear guidelines for both speakers and attendees (regarding behavior and content), ... Nothing mind-blowing yet things outreach, advocacy and mentorship groups have to repeat time and again.
- ioquatix 13y agoHold on. I'm going to be a father soon. Wouldn't I appreciate all that stuff too if I have my kid with me?
- sergiotapia 13y ago__EXTREME__ PC behavior and absolutely no references to dongles.
- Tichy 13y agoLet's see - "women only" - check...
- Peroni 13y agoTo add to the confusion, the application form has gender as a required field where you can select 'male' as an option.
- mtrimpe 13y agoI'm pretty sure this thread will be filled soon enough with people debating the degree of inappropriateness of the grant, but I for one applaud them for taking an initiative. To put it differently: I'd rather live in a world with this grant than in one without.
- Peroni 13y agoI don't think I'd go so far as to say it's inappropriate however I certainly think it's pointless. I really don't understand how this helps "...to encourage women to excel in computing and technology".
- stefantalpalaru 13y ago> I really don't understand how this helps "...to encourage women to excel in computing and technology". It doesn't and it's not supposed to. The goal of this program is to increase the number of female participants at technical conferences. That's it.
- Peroni 13y agoYou say it's not supposed to yet my quote was taken directly from the first line of the campaign page.
- stefantalpalaru 13y agoDon't take the PR newspeak at its face value.
- return0 13y agoi know plenty of guys who would like a grant to attend conferences. How is this not sexist?
- fhd2 13y agoSexist = discriminating. Assuming you're male, do you feel discriminated because Google wants more women to attend conferences? I don't. Now if the site would say that men in general shouldn't bother going to tech conferences, and if the majority of society would agree that men shouldn't bother getting into tech at all, then it would be discriminating. We're quite far from that.
- jkl32 13y agoGoogle's PR department seem to be working overtime. I guess after the NSA revelations their public image took a nosedive, developers with strong morals have probably abandoned that sinking ship. I'd rather work for Oracle right now.
- icebraining 13y agoAre you seriously going to post a "Google ♥ NSA" message on every single topic about them?
- ck2 13y agoSome people immediately think this is bias but remember you have to correct the massive imbalance first. If Google was doing this where the attendance was even 33% women I could understand a bad reaction. But I think it's more like 3% in reality? Personally I'd love to go to Velocity, there were some great presentations at the US conference this year, they should extend this offer for people in USA to fly to Europe. (ha, who am I kidding, I am not subjecting myself to the TSA) adding some right-on-topic humor: http://socialsignal.com/cartoon/cherchez-la-femme http://socialsignal.com/cartoon/cherchez-la-femme
- masklinn 13y ago> But I think it's more like 3% in reality? Depends a lot on the community & conference, there's quite a bit of variance. But the mean is definitely much closer to 3% than to 30%: PyCon 2013 prided itself on its progress on gender-equality and gender-parity[0] and it had 20% of women attendee (up from 10% in 2012 I understand) [0] bolstered by gender-equality sub-communities such as PyLadies
- return0 13y agoNah, it's just PR bullshit. Did women ever complain that tech conferences are too expensive to attend?
- Tichy 13y agoIsn't it mostly the case that people's employers pay for conferences? How many people pay out of their own pocket?
- Tichy 13y agoUsually there is 0% of me at most conferences, so shouldn't I be paid some money to correct that bias?
- Ellipsis753 13y agoThere are a huge number more female florists than male. I really don't see the need to try to correct this "massive imbalance" by offering large incentives for males to become florists.
- Ellipsis753 13y agoPersonally I think this seems kind of sexist. I would highly doubt that this would go down so well if it was "schools offering grants to men to encourage them to become teachers". Assuming that there are more female teachers than male. There's no good reason that we should treat men and women differently just so that we can try to force each job to be 50/50 gender split. Giving women some exclusive opportunities is ultimately still discriminating on gender and two wrongs don't really make a right here.
- CJefferson 13y agoI don't know about teaching, but there are men-only grants to get men into nursing. People always bring this up, without actually checking that men-only grants do in fact exist. Teaching-wise, a quick google finds the "Dr. Calvin Martin Memorial Scholarship Trust Fund", open only to black males.
- masklinn 13y ago> There's no good reason that we should treat men and women differently Men and women are already treated differently, the point of these is to try and apply corrective actions to lead to better gender balance and hopefully, down the line, social consciousness changes leading to balance in the first place making the grant unnecessary. If you don't like this grant, help fight for a more equal treatment at the root.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- RougeFemme 13y agoActually, I wouldn't be surprised - or upset - if schools offered such grants to men. There are way more male teachers than female teachers. And I don't think everything should be simply about numbers and "balance". But I do think the educational experience for kids is different - in a good way - when they have both male and females teachers.
- ps4fanboy 13y agoIf I identify as a female but still look like a male can I apply for this?
- masklinn 13y agoI'm pretty sure anybody can apply.
- sergiotapia 13y agoWhat is your genetic sex? There's your answer.
- unknown_var 13y agoThis is pure sexism, Where are the grants for males? This is giving women an advantage over males wanting to get in to the field. And they are getting an advantage because of their gender that is sexism. If women want to work in tech there is nothing stopping them, the issue (i believe) is that females are generally more attracted to social based working roles rather than tech problems. Example on avg men speak 2000 works a day (google facts), women speak on adv 7000. Females are drawn to more social enabling roles, where are men prefer to play/fix/tinker than be social. I do not understand this need to have balanced male and females in all roles when it is proven that we are biologically different and that male and females look for different things from employment. in fairness, males and females have very different base priorities. Now becuase of hte above post, I will be labeled as a bigot and or Chauvinism male, oh well
- jkl32 13y agoAgreed. Where are the grants for women to work in the building trade? Or for men to work as nurses? Both are under-represented in those fields. Plenty of fields have a gender imbalance, but they don't present it as a problem.
- saalweachter 13y agoMaybe if you typed www dot malenursingscholarships dot com into your browser ... ?
- sophacles 13y agoBoth of those exist. One example of each... Women in building trades grants: http://www.state.nj.us/governor/news/news/552012/approved/20120830a.html http://www.state.nj.us/governor/news/news/552012/approved/20... Grants for men in nursing: http://voices.yahoo.com/top-20-nursing-scholarships-grants-men-11806793.html http://voices.yahoo.com/top-20-nursing-scholarships-grants-m... (Note for the later its a top 20 list - implying there are more than 20 such grants). If you would like to make an argument, please do the tiniest bit of fact checking before you make wild claims. I mean, I opened 2 tabs and typed into the search "grants for women in building trades" and "grants for male nurses". Basically your wanton ignorance is showing.
- antirez 13y agoThat's wrong: attending to conferences does not make a huge difference in the process of becoming a good programmer. Much better to use the same money to sponsor a primary school program to make kids understand computers and programming for instance.
- fhd2 13y ago> attending to conferences does not make a huge difference in the process of becoming a good programmer. That's probably why it's called "Women in Tech Conference and Travel Grants", and not "Women in Tech Become Better Programmers Grants". I do see a point here. Going to conferences hasn't made me a better programmer per se, but I think it has made me more passionate about the field, in my early days.
- rednotebook 13y agoReminds me of topblacktalent.co.uk
- Systemic33 13y ago"Come attend our seminars. We have so many guys attending, we are now giving cheap tickets to all females!" Kinda sounds a like a reverse advert for a (scam) dating website.
- Tichy 13y agoIt's quite common to give women free entrance to nightclubs, too. Well nobody will admit the real reason "we" want more women in tech. Let's just say it makes for a better atmosphere and more "attractive" work place. (I have nothing against women in tech, btw).
- Systemic33 13y agoThe word you are looking for is a more "dynamic" workplace.
- stickydink 13y ago"to be paid after the conference" "All applicants will be notified ... 3-4 weeks prior to the event." How likely is it that this will increase participation, rather than just wind up just effectively refunding people who would have been going either way? If you apply, and receive confirmation 3 weeks prior; it's pretty much guaranteed that travel/accommodation/ticket prices will all be higher than they are today. Maybe even 1000 EUR higher.
- fhd2 13y agoOne requirement is puzzling: > Have a strong academic background with demonstrated leadership ability Why the need for "demonstrated leadership ability"? Doesn't that completely rule out CS students and junior workers, as well as senior workers who aren't interested in leadership?
- RougeFemme 13y agoMaybe they want they want to ensure that they get women who will go back and ?evangelize? and lead other women to the conference in the future. But I agree - not wild about that requirement. And - not to stereotype - but I would think that women with "demonstrated leadership ability" would already feel comfortable attending the conference.
- belorn 13y agoThis is very tactless move, and will more likely do harm than good to gender equality. Compare the following two requirements for a grant and decide which one would be better: Be a person with female genitalia, who work in computing and technology, and who has leadership ability. Or: Be a person whose work is inspiring others for better gender equality in computing and technology.
- jheriko 13y agothis is pretty sexist.... maybe they just don't want to go? they are allowed to be different last i checked? or are we going to control that freedom away from them?