4 ms·

We're currently in the stage of the Internet where we can choose our feudal masters[1]. Want Google? Fine. Prefer Apple. No problem. Microsoft? Why not. For me,

by casca 13y ago

We're currently in the stage of the Internet where we can choose our feudal masters[1]. Want Google? Fine. Prefer Apple. No problem. Microsoft? Why not. For me, the issue is that people are becoming more entrenched as time progresses. The cost of preparing to switch can be relatively low - pay $8/year for your own domain and it's possible to keep using the same systems you choose today. Yet if the technological elite (as represented by HN) is unwilling to do this, what chance do the rest have? [2] [1] https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/12/feudal_sec.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/12/feudal_sec.ht... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5537383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5537383

bdcravens 13y ago
Indeed. If Google and Dropbox stopped working, a ton of apps on my phone would be broken or significantly impaired.
josh2600 13y ago
Your comment could have a few names changed and apply equally well to the Lycos and Yahoo web portals of the early Internet. The Tech elite have the same chance as the rest of us. We're all humans, vulnerable to loneliness, envy and every other mortal sin. The pain of switching is not technical, but social and political. It is a deeply political and social decision to disconnect from our social fabric and not one that even the most ostracized members of society make in haste. I just think you're ignoring the real costs in favor of the monetary concerns.
- casca 13y ago
  Very much agreed. My point is more that the cost to prepare to switch is very low. We have a high degree of certainty that email will be used for the foreseeable future so why not make the addressing movable? How can we make the preparation for flexibility become a pure technical problem and not a social one?
  - josh2600 13y ago
    "He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." — Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil
acqq 13y ago
Exactly. Every time I hear some company telling they've just decided that they don't need their own e-mail servers and that they do everything through GMail, I worry a little more. Disclaimer: I use Google's services myself. I can't imagine who doesn't. But somewhere in the back of my mind, I think about it sometimes...
- Spearchucker 13y ago
  I don't use anything from Google or Apple. I have a Windows Phone, host my own mail in Luxemburg, and don't use any cloud storage. I can't imagine why anyone would use Google.
dictum 13y ago
>The cost of preparing to switch can be relatively low - pay $8/year for your own domain and it's possible to keep using the same systems you choose today. Domains are not the only thing you need to take into account. There is hosting, deployment, and keeping things up to date and secure. Take email for example. Google no longer offer free Google Apps accounts, so you have to spend at least $50/year for a single user to use Google Apps Mail with your domain while you prepare to switch to your own server. To run your own server, you may wish to use a VPS. You can find a cheap provider on LowEndBox, but for additional safety and reliability, you decide to sign up for a DigitalOcean VPS for $5/month. Then you have to install it, keep it updated, etc. It's not expensive, but it's not $8/year, and it's not as easy as just having a Gmail account. This is just email; other services introduce other complications. I really don't want to spread FUD, and I wish more people would break away from the Apple/Google/Microsoft cage.
- casca 13y ago
  I'm not advocating that people move now. The value of Gmail definitely outweighs current costs for many people so it makes sense to keep using it. But to buy a domain and forward email to a Gmail address does not require a VPS or maintaining it. Other services may be harder to migrate, but they usually don't have the same cost of notification. If I change where my calendar is hosted, I don't need to inform all my contacts.
  - dictum 13y ago
    Again, a Google Apps account for a single user now costs $5/month ($50 if you pay annually). I made an account (with multiple users so I could have different emails for certain services and needs) when it was still free. If I were to sign up now, I'd need at least 4 users, so it'd cost me $20/month. There are better and cheaper alternatives, but I just wanted to point out that you can't get free Google Apps accounts anymore.
- danielweber 13y ago
  What are my rights if I have a Digital Ocean box and they decide I suck (the same way Apple or Google might)?

by casca 13y ago

bdcravens 13y ago

Indeed. If Google and Dropbox stopped working, a ton of apps on my phone would be broken or significantly impaired.

josh2600 13y ago

Your comment could have a few names changed and apply equally well to the Lycos and Yahoo web portals of the early Internet. The Tech elite have the same chance as the rest of us. We're all humans, vulnerable to loneliness, envy and every other mortal sin. The pain of switching is not technical, but social and political. It is a deeply political and social decision to disconnect from our social fabric and not one that even the most ostracized members of society make in haste. I just think you're ignoring the real costs in favor of the monetary concerns.

casca 13y ago
Very much agreed. My point is more that the cost to prepare to switch is very low. We have a high degree of certainty that email will be used for the foreseeable future so why not make the addressing movable? How can we make the preparation for flexibility become a pure technical problem and not a social one?
- josh2600 13y ago
  "He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." — Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil

acqq 13y ago

Exactly. Every time I hear some company telling they've just decided that they don't need their own e-mail servers and that they do everything through GMail, I worry a little more. Disclaimer: I use Google's services myself. I can't imagine who doesn't. But somewhere in the back of my mind, I think about it sometimes...

Spearchucker 13y ago
I don't use anything from Google or Apple. I have a Windows Phone, host my own mail in Luxemburg, and don't use any cloud storage. I can't imagine why anyone would use Google.

dictum 13y ago

>The cost of preparing to switch can be relatively low - pay $8/year for your own domain and it's possible to keep using the same systems you choose today. Domains are not the only thing you need to take into account. There is hosting, deployment, and keeping things up to date and secure. Take email for example. Google no longer offer free Google Apps accounts, so you have to spend at least $50/year for a single user to use Google Apps Mail with your domain while you prepare to switch to your own server. To run your own server, you may wish to use a VPS. You can find a cheap provider on LowEndBox, but for additional safety and reliability, you decide to sign up for a DigitalOcean VPS for $5/month. Then you have to install it, keep it updated, etc. It's not expensive, but it's not $8/year, and it's not as easy as just having a Gmail account. This is just email; other services introduce other complications. I really don't want to spread FUD, and I wish more people would break away from the Apple/Google/Microsoft cage.

casca 13y ago
I'm not advocating that people move now. The value of Gmail definitely outweighs current costs for many people so it makes sense to keep using it. But to buy a domain and forward email to a Gmail address does not require a VPS or maintaining it. Other services may be harder to migrate, but they usually don't have the same cost of notification. If I change where my calendar is hosted, I don't need to inform all my contacts.
- dictum 13y ago
  Again, a Google Apps account for a single user now costs $5/month ($50 if you pay annually). I made an account (with multiple users so I could have different emails for certain services and needs) when it was still free. If I were to sign up now, I'd need at least 4 users, so it'd cost me $20/month. There are better and cheaper alternatives, but I just wanted to point out that you can't get free Google Apps accounts anymore.
danielweber 13y ago
What are my rights if I have a Digital Ocean box and they decide I suck (the same way Apple or Google might)?