4 ms·

Can you take your political opinions and shove them down a dark hole somewhere? Most people are here for a discussion of the technology, not your rhetoric.

Daniel_Newby 13y ago
American unions are political patronage jobs. They will quite cheerfully spend the entire budget digging holes and filling them back in. If you do not account for this, you will have no budget left for technology. Making the design an open source project is a major step towards European style (socialist) unions, where the unions help decide what to do and how to make it succeed.
- stcredzero 13y ago
  > Making the design an open source project is a major step towards European style (socialist) unions, where the unions help decide what to do and how to make it succeed. The difference between European unions and US unions is probably a big part of the reason for the negative connotation of the word "socialist" in the US. If US unions behaved like those in Europe, we would have a more positive connotation.
drharris 13y ago
It's not really an opinion so much as fact. Labor unions have proven to be beneficial only for the members of the union and politicians. If you had ever done business around them, you'd agree.
- LockeWatts 13y ago
  Wait, your political opinion reinforced by your own personal experiences is what passes as fact now? By golly, I've never met someone so enlightened. Please, tell me more.
  - thatswrong0 13y ago
    What would it take to convince you? A peer reviewed study? Just take a look around at what unions have been up to in this country. Look at the union-born gigantic pension issues in California and Illinois. http://www.illinoispolicy.org/blog/blog.asp?ArticleSource=6041 http://www.illinoispolicy.org/blog/blog.asp?ArticleSource=60... or http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-01-29/news/ct-met-superintendent-pensions-20110129_1_pension-rules-public-school-pension-state-pension http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-01-29/news/ct-met-su... Check out what unions did/do to convention centers in Chicago and Las Vegas. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-01-17/business/chi-01172012-mccormick-union-rules-overhaul_1_exhibitor-costs-lower-cost-rival-cities-booth-work http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-01-17/business/chi-0... Look at the pay of BART employees. http://www.mercurynews.com/salaries/bay-area?Entity=Bay%20Area%20Rapid%20Transit http://www.mercurynews.com/salaries/bay-area?Entity=Bay%20Ar... Or is that all just anecdotal as well? I could go on.
    - LockeWatts 13y ago
      It would take some logical argument as to why the concept of collective bargaining is a bad one.
      - thatswrong0 13y ago
        That would be ridiculous, since that is not the argument that needs to be made. Instead, you want a logical argument as to why the concept of collective bargaining in the public sector is a bad one. I won't provide one since they are readily available if you have an ounce of curiosity. I'll just leave this: “It is impossible to bargain collectively with the government.” - George Meany

Daniel_Newby 13y ago

American unions are political patronage jobs. They will quite cheerfully spend the entire budget digging holes and filling them back in. If you do not account for this, you will have no budget left for technology. Making the design an open source project is a major step towards European style (socialist) unions, where the unions help decide what to do and how to make it succeed.

stcredzero 13y ago
> Making the design an open source project is a major step towards European style (socialist) unions, where the unions help decide what to do and how to make it succeed. The difference between European unions and US unions is probably a big part of the reason for the negative connotation of the word "socialist" in the US. If US unions behaved like those in Europe, we would have a more positive connotation.

drharris 13y ago

It's not really an opinion so much as fact. Labor unions have proven to be beneficial only for the members of the union and politicians. If you had ever done business around them, you'd agree.

LockeWatts 13y ago
Wait, your political opinion reinforced by your own personal experiences is what passes as fact now? By golly, I've never met someone so enlightened. Please, tell me more.
- thatswrong0 13y ago
  What would it take to convince you? A peer reviewed study? Just take a look around at what unions have been up to in this country. Look at the union-born gigantic pension issues in California and Illinois. http://www.illinoispolicy.org/blog/blog.asp?ArticleSource=6041 http://www.illinoispolicy.org/blog/blog.asp?ArticleSource=60... or http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-01-29/news/ct-met-superintendent-pensions-20110129_1_pension-rules-public-school-pension-state-pension http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-01-29/news/ct-met-su... Check out what unions did/do to convention centers in Chicago and Las Vegas. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-01-17/business/chi-01172012-mccormick-union-rules-overhaul_1_exhibitor-costs-lower-cost-rival-cities-booth-work http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-01-17/business/chi-0... Look at the pay of BART employees. http://www.mercurynews.com/salaries/bay-area?Entity=Bay%20Area%20Rapid%20Transit http://www.mercurynews.com/salaries/bay-area?Entity=Bay%20Ar... Or is that all just anecdotal as well? I could go on.
  - LockeWatts 13y ago
    It would take some logical argument as to why the concept of collective bargaining is a bad one.
    - thatswrong0 13y ago
      That would be ridiculous, since that is not the argument that needs to be made. Instead, you want a logical argument as to why the concept of collective bargaining in the public sector is a bad one. I won't provide one since they are readily available if you have an ounce of curiosity. I'll just leave this: “It is impossible to bargain collectively with the government.” - George Meany