8 ms·

If you find "mainstream" coffee enjoyable, is it really in your best interest to raise your expectations? If you suddenly find normal coffee lacking, have you r

If you find "mainstream" coffee enjoyable, is it really in your best interest to raise your expectations? If you suddenly find normal coffee lacking, have you really improved your life?

swombat 17y ago
It's quite plausible that if you find mainstream coffee enjoyable, you might find quality coffee even more enjoyable. If you find cheap wine enjoyable, that doesn't mean you won't find a Grand Cru a hundred times more delectable.
- mseebach 17y ago
  Quite the opposite, in my experience. The more really good wine I try, the less I'm able to enjoy cheap wine. These days I prefer water over cheap wine, unless I'm specifically trying to get drunk. The same with coffee... after discovering freshly ground French press, I'll drink and really enjoy two cups a day, rather than the 6-10 cups of stale filter coffee I'd drink previously.
  - swombat 17y ago
    Yes. And the reason why you enjoy the quality coffee more than the cheap filter stuff is because it is more pleasurable. That is also the reason why you don't enjoy the cheap stuff anymore - because you know that it's actually pretty bad. You can still drink it anyway, but you know it's not that good. Suggesting that this is a bad thing is kind of suggesting that you don't think your tastes should evolve for the better throughout your life. Pushing this argument to its natural conclusion, we should all just eat candy, drink fizzy soda, and watch kids' cartoons for the rest of our lives. Do you think that's a better state than knowing that there are such things as fine food, great wine and inspiring movies and books?
    - spatulon 17y ago
      I recently became aware that I was unable to review a movie with anything more profound than, "It held my attention for two hours." I've been actively seeking out movies that are considered great, and just engaging my brain a bit more while I watch them. It has significantly increased my appreciation for many movies. It's also meant I've noticed more flaws, but it's made the experience of movie-watching so much more enjoyable and meaningful, and not just the time-killer it used to be.
    - mseebach 17y ago
      > Suggesting that this is a bad thing Oh, I didn't mean to imply that. I think it's great.
    - philwelch 17y ago
      "Yes. And the reason why you enjoy the quality coffee more than the cheap filter stuff is because it is more pleasurable. That is also the reason why you don't enjoy the cheap stuff anymore - because you know that it's actually pretty bad. You can still drink it anyway, but you know it's not that good. Suggesting that this is a bad thing is kind of suggesting that you don't think your tastes should evolve for the better throughout your life. " You're assuming that enjoyment and happiness always improve when drinking better coffee/wine/beer/etc. Untrue. If you're perfectly happy with what you have now, cultivating a more sophisticated taste will usually just frustrate you because now to get the same level of enjoyment you had previously you have to spend more money or time. Going back to what you had before doesn't return you to a baseline level of happiness, it makes you unhappy. To get back to the baseline you now have to regularly consume expensive or time-consuming coffee instead of the cheap stuff. If your goal in life is to enjoy the "finest things", go right ahead. If your goal in life is to be happy, then be very careful about raising the bar for things that you enjoy. Being able to enjoy cheap crap makes you just as happy as being able to enjoy expensive crap, but at lower cost. (As it turns out, this argument doesn't apply to books and movies and music because good books, movies, and music cost just as much as the crap ones, and because good art is intellectually stimulating, which is worthwhile for its own reasons.)
      - swombat 17y ago
        Good food is also intellectually stimulating (at the very least, many gourmets will agree). In addition, good food is often healthier, more balanced, etc. I'd say that in many, many cases, "better stuff" has many other advantages than simply being considered better. I actually am not a big fan of expensive coffee, because I can't taste the difference between a good cup of coffee and an excellent cup of coffee. And some people are not big fans of expensive wine because they can't taste the difference between a bad wine and a good wine. But I don't feel I'm superior to people who can taste the difference. In fact, I'd say I'm inferior - my range of experiences in my life is poorer than theirs - at least when it comes to coffee. Honestly, I don't see how you can present the ignorance of better things as an advantage, except in are really base, utilitarian way, where we are all hamsters on the hedonistic treadmill with no higher aspirations beyond immediate pleasurable gratification.
- erlanger 17y ago
  I just discovered Night Train, and boy does Thunderbird taste like swill these days.
jetako 17y ago
It's like sushi. Mediocre sushi can be enjoyable, especially when you get a multi-course meal out of it. But premium sushi, the kind shipped straight from Japan or wherever the fish live best, is another thing entirely. You can't even compare the mediocre with the premium. Different planes of satisfaction. It's the difference between decent and incredible.
discojesus 17y ago
I've tried all the stuff mentioned in the article, and to me personally (allow me to repeat this to nip the obvious retorts in the bud - to ME, PERSONALLY :P) it hasn't made one bit of difference. I still use a french press, but that has a lot to do with convenience. I just don't grind it fresh anymore or spend tons of money on fresh-roasted beans - a bag of 8 O'Clock Colombian works just fine. So you might find that ultra-fresh coffee brewed in such a special way is the cat's pajamas, or you might like me find that it was way too much time, effort and money for way too little payoff. Trying new things is fun and worthwhile, but in this post-Internet post-9/11 pre-intergalactic wars world, product fetishism definitely abounds ("I won't take notes in anything except a Moleskine journal" and such). But as always, why em em vee.
- colonhyphenp 17y ago
  I am in the same boat with the french press - I really can't tell that much of a difference between a cup of freshly roasted/ground french press coffee and a cup of coffee at Starbucks. However, I recently switched to an Aeropress single cup coffee maker, and it is a HUGE difference - it makes a small concentrated cup of coffee with very little bitterness, and brings out the coffee's natural sweetness. Also, I find it easier to use and clean than a french press. See http://www.aerobie.com/Products/aeropress_story.htm http://www.aerobie.com/Products/aeropress_story.htm
  - tortilla 17y ago
    Yep, I did the same. The French Press was great and all, but I couldn't produce a good cup consistently and it was quite messy. Didn't particularly like the grit either. Have been using the Aeropress for about 4 months straight and really love it. The flavors are great, clean up is quick and painless. Now I'm thinking about roasting my own beans. A local roaster recommended the Behmor: http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.behmor.php http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.behmor.php
    - xayide 17y ago
      I’ve never had good results using a french press with a blade grinder. You need such a coarse grind for the press, and fine grit is just inevitable with a cheap blade. I got a burr grinder several years ago, and my french press coffee has improved immensely. Of course, the clean up still sucks - I only break out the press for fresh, interesting coffee that I happen in to.
tel 17y ago
If you find mainstream coffee enjoyable, by all means stay with it! Homebrewed (lit.) coffee will definitely teach you to taste deficiencies in everything from restaurants to Starbucks, but if you don't already think they're there then it's definitely either cheaper or easier to just stay innocent. My experience was out of frustration with what I felt was watery or burnt or too sugary. Homebrew fits the bill perfectly. YMMV, yeah?
petercooper 17y ago
Not everyone finds higher quality stuff to be better. I prefer cheap white sparkling to champagne, and prefer instant coffee to any of the "nicer" coffees I've tried. But if you try higher quality coffee and prefer it, why not? It becomes a good treat.
biohacker42 17y ago
As someone who moved from Europe the US, I can tell you I envy Americans who have never tasted anything other then standard US food. Ignorance truly is bliss.
baddox 17y ago
The actual value of connoisseur-ship can be debated in ANY category, from coffee to beer to audio equipment, ad infinitum. I do think it would be worth it, since being able to discern depth, nuance, and quality is very rewarding. However, what I absolutely hate is arrogant connoisseurs, whether or not they actually know their stuff. You know the guy who asks what you're drinking, and when you say Miller Lite he scoffs and claims that all domestic light beers taste the same, then glances around to see who was impressed. I'm sure the same thing occurs in the coffee world.

If you find "mainstream" coffee enjoyable, is it really in your best interest to raise your expectations? If you suddenly find normal coffee lacking, have you really improved your life?

swombat 17y ago

It's quite plausible that if you find mainstream coffee enjoyable, you might find quality coffee even more enjoyable. If you find cheap wine enjoyable, that doesn't mean you won't find a Grand Cru a hundred times more delectable.

mseebach 17y ago
Quite the opposite, in my experience. The more really good wine I try, the less I'm able to enjoy cheap wine. These days I prefer water over cheap wine, unless I'm specifically trying to get drunk. The same with coffee... after discovering freshly ground French press, I'll drink and really enjoy two cups a day, rather than the 6-10 cups of stale filter coffee I'd drink previously.
- swombat 17y ago
  Yes. And the reason why you enjoy the quality coffee more than the cheap filter stuff is because it is more pleasurable. That is also the reason why you don't enjoy the cheap stuff anymore - because you know that it's actually pretty bad. You can still drink it anyway, but you know it's not that good. Suggesting that this is a bad thing is kind of suggesting that you don't think your tastes should evolve for the better throughout your life. Pushing this argument to its natural conclusion, we should all just eat candy, drink fizzy soda, and watch kids' cartoons for the rest of our lives. Do you think that's a better state than knowing that there are such things as fine food, great wine and inspiring movies and books?
  - spatulon 17y ago
    I recently became aware that I was unable to review a movie with anything more profound than, "It held my attention for two hours." I've been actively seeking out movies that are considered great, and just engaging my brain a bit more while I watch them. It has significantly increased my appreciation for many movies. It's also meant I've noticed more flaws, but it's made the experience of movie-watching so much more enjoyable and meaningful, and not just the time-killer it used to be.
  - mseebach 17y ago
    > Suggesting that this is a bad thing Oh, I didn't mean to imply that. I think it's great.
  - philwelch 17y ago
    "Yes. And the reason why you enjoy the quality coffee more than the cheap filter stuff is because it is more pleasurable. That is also the reason why you don't enjoy the cheap stuff anymore - because you know that it's actually pretty bad. You can still drink it anyway, but you know it's not that good. Suggesting that this is a bad thing is kind of suggesting that you don't think your tastes should evolve for the better throughout your life. " You're assuming that enjoyment and happiness always improve when drinking better coffee/wine/beer/etc. Untrue. If you're perfectly happy with what you have now, cultivating a more sophisticated taste will usually just frustrate you because now to get the same level of enjoyment you had previously you have to spend more money or time. Going back to what you had before doesn't return you to a baseline level of happiness, it makes you unhappy. To get back to the baseline you now have to regularly consume expensive or time-consuming coffee instead of the cheap stuff. If your goal in life is to enjoy the "finest things", go right ahead. If your goal in life is to be happy, then be very careful about raising the bar for things that you enjoy. Being able to enjoy cheap crap makes you just as happy as being able to enjoy expensive crap, but at lower cost. (As it turns out, this argument doesn't apply to books and movies and music because good books, movies, and music cost just as much as the crap ones, and because good art is intellectually stimulating, which is worthwhile for its own reasons.)
    - swombat 17y ago
      Good food is also intellectually stimulating (at the very least, many gourmets will agree). In addition, good food is often healthier, more balanced, etc. I'd say that in many, many cases, "better stuff" has many other advantages than simply being considered better. I actually am not a big fan of expensive coffee, because I can't taste the difference between a good cup of coffee and an excellent cup of coffee. And some people are not big fans of expensive wine because they can't taste the difference between a bad wine and a good wine. But I don't feel I'm superior to people who can taste the difference. In fact, I'd say I'm inferior - my range of experiences in my life is poorer than theirs - at least when it comes to coffee. Honestly, I don't see how you can present the ignorance of better things as an advantage, except in are really base, utilitarian way, where we are all hamsters on the hedonistic treadmill with no higher aspirations beyond immediate pleasurable gratification.
erlanger 17y ago
I just discovered Night Train, and boy does Thunderbird taste like swill these days.

jetako 17y ago

It's like sushi. Mediocre sushi can be enjoyable, especially when you get a multi-course meal out of it. But premium sushi, the kind shipped straight from Japan or wherever the fish live best, is another thing entirely. You can't even compare the mediocre with the premium. Different planes of satisfaction. It's the difference between decent and incredible.

discojesus 17y ago

I've tried all the stuff mentioned in the article, and to me personally (allow me to repeat this to nip the obvious retorts in the bud - to ME, PERSONALLY :P) it hasn't made one bit of difference. I still use a french press, but that has a lot to do with convenience. I just don't grind it fresh anymore or spend tons of money on fresh-roasted beans - a bag of 8 O'Clock Colombian works just fine. So you might find that ultra-fresh coffee brewed in such a special way is the cat's pajamas, or you might like me find that it was way too much time, effort and money for way too little payoff. Trying new things is fun and worthwhile, but in this post-Internet post-9/11 pre-intergalactic wars world, product fetishism definitely abounds ("I won't take notes in anything except a Moleskine journal" and such). But as always, why em em vee.

colonhyphenp 17y ago
I am in the same boat with the french press - I really can't tell that much of a difference between a cup of freshly roasted/ground french press coffee and a cup of coffee at Starbucks. However, I recently switched to an Aeropress single cup coffee maker, and it is a HUGE difference - it makes a small concentrated cup of coffee with very little bitterness, and brings out the coffee's natural sweetness. Also, I find it easier to use and clean than a french press. See http://www.aerobie.com/Products/aeropress_story.htm http://www.aerobie.com/Products/aeropress_story.htm
- tortilla 17y ago
  Yep, I did the same. The French Press was great and all, but I couldn't produce a good cup consistently and it was quite messy. Didn't particularly like the grit either. Have been using the Aeropress for about 4 months straight and really love it. The flavors are great, clean up is quick and painless. Now I'm thinking about roasting my own beans. A local roaster recommended the Behmor: http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.behmor.php http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.behmor.php
  - xayide 17y ago
    I’ve never had good results using a french press with a blade grinder. You need such a coarse grind for the press, and fine grit is just inevitable with a cheap blade. I got a burr grinder several years ago, and my french press coffee has improved immensely. Of course, the clean up still sucks - I only break out the press for fresh, interesting coffee that I happen in to.

tel 17y ago

If you find mainstream coffee enjoyable, by all means stay with it! Homebrewed (lit.) coffee will definitely teach you to taste deficiencies in everything from restaurants to Starbucks, but if you don't already think they're there then it's definitely either cheaper or easier to just stay innocent. My experience was out of frustration with what I felt was watery or burnt or too sugary. Homebrew fits the bill perfectly. YMMV, yeah?

petercooper 17y ago

Not everyone finds higher quality stuff to be better. I prefer cheap white sparkling to champagne, and prefer instant coffee to any of the "nicer" coffees I've tried. But if you try higher quality coffee and prefer it, why not? It becomes a good treat.

biohacker42 17y ago

As someone who moved from Europe the US, I can tell you I envy Americans who have never tasted anything other then standard US food. Ignorance truly is bliss.

baddox 17y ago

The actual value of connoisseur-ship can be debated in ANY category, from coffee to beer to audio equipment, ad infinitum. I do think it would be worth it, since being able to discern depth, nuance, and quality is very rewarding. However, what I absolutely hate is arrogant connoisseurs, whether or not they actually know their stuff. You know the guy who asks what you're drinking, and when you say Miller Lite he scoffs and claims that all domestic light beers taste the same, then glances around to see who was impressed. I'm sure the same thing occurs in the coffee world.