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TL;DR: the tipping system has a negative externality- some customers receive worse service because they "look" like bad tippers, according to the prejudices of

TL;DR: the tipping system has a negative externality- some customers receive worse service because they "look" like bad tippers, according to the prejudices of the waitstaff (e.g. by being black). This negative externality is so harmful, we'd actually do less harm overall by just getting rid of tipping. I agree that the first part happens. Not sure I agree with the second.

AlexandrB 13y ago
What are the positive effects, if any, of the tipping system then? Even a small negative externality is reason enough to ditch a system that offers no benefit.
- larrys 13y ago
  "ditch a system that offers no benefit" Is that based on things said in this one article or did the article point to actual research attesting to that fact? (I didn't read the entire multi part article so I'd like to know if you've identified where that fact came from).
  - crymer11 13y ago
    I don't think AlexandrB was stating that tipping offers no benefit, but instead asked what benefit it provides and making the argument that if it doesn't provide any positives, but does provide negatives, then it should be ditched.
- nohuck13 13y ago
  There's a benefit in incentivizing good service (assuming it leads to better service, which my anecdotal experience at tipping vs service charge restaurants makes me think it does). We tend to marginalize things like this when big societal issues like racism come up, but it's definitely part of the equation.
  - asdasf 13y ago
    >There's a benefit in incentivizing good service Except it only incentivizes good services for white men without accents who drink and dress well. That doesn't seem like such a great benefit.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      Don't be hyperbolic, it also incentivizes good service to anyone that the server recognizes... I typically receive mediocre to poor service when I am dining alone until the staff learn that I tip well.
      - AlexandrB 13y ago
        So it incentivizes good service for regulars who tip well and "expected big tippers", but not for tourists or individuals who are having their first dining experience (which is probably the most important one to the employer, BTW). Seems like the equivalent of a software system that only works on weekday afternoons, except in March where it works every other Sunday too (maybe).
        jlgreco 13y ago
        > (which is probably the most important one to the employer, BTW) Possibly, but I don't think that is generally true. I eat at a (pretty damn touristy) place two or three times a month and the owner behind the counter is always overjoyed to see me and throws in extra stuff for free all the time. Now, in that particular case it isn't tip motivate, but he absolutely appreciates the regular reliable business. I think that regular reliable business is most important to many small restaurants, which is why you see so many of them offering punch/stamp cards to regulars. If you frequent small locations, it becomes clear pretty quickly that the business owners really do love regulars. If preferring repeat customers was actually bad for business, the business owner would be well within their rights to forbid tipping at their business and instead pay their staff the proper minimum wage. I suspect this isn't ever actually the case; either repeat business makes up a significant chunk of your business and is more valuable for its reliability, or your business is so touristy that the occasional regular getting better service has no significant impact. Maybe there is some sort of middle-ground between those two, but I suspect it is elusive.
- dnskw 13y ago
  If a waiter/waitress does a good job they will be more likely to get a better tip. If a waiter/waitress does a bad job they will get smaller / no tip. Now, they will not necessarily get a bigger tip or even necessarily get a tip if they do a wonderful job, but it does make some people.

AlexandrB 13y ago

What are the positive effects, if any, of the tipping system then? Even a small negative externality is reason enough to ditch a system that offers no benefit.

larrys 13y ago
"ditch a system that offers no benefit" Is that based on things said in this one article or did the article point to actual research attesting to that fact? (I didn't read the entire multi part article so I'd like to know if you've identified where that fact came from).
- crymer11 13y ago
  I don't think AlexandrB was stating that tipping offers no benefit, but instead asked what benefit it provides and making the argument that if it doesn't provide any positives, but does provide negatives, then it should be ditched.
nohuck13 13y ago
There's a benefit in incentivizing good service (assuming it leads to better service, which my anecdotal experience at tipping vs service charge restaurants makes me think it does). We tend to marginalize things like this when big societal issues like racism come up, but it's definitely part of the equation.
- asdasf 13y ago
  >There's a benefit in incentivizing good service Except it only incentivizes good services for white men without accents who drink and dress well. That doesn't seem like such a great benefit.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    Don't be hyperbolic, it also incentivizes good service to anyone that the server recognizes... I typically receive mediocre to poor service when I am dining alone until the staff learn that I tip well.
    - AlexandrB 13y ago
      So it incentivizes good service for regulars who tip well and "expected big tippers", but not for tourists or individuals who are having their first dining experience (which is probably the most important one to the employer, BTW). Seems like the equivalent of a software system that only works on weekday afternoons, except in March where it works every other Sunday too (maybe).
      - jlgreco 13y ago
        > (which is probably the most important one to the employer, BTW) Possibly, but I don't think that is generally true. I eat at a (pretty damn touristy) place two or three times a month and the owner behind the counter is always overjoyed to see me and throws in extra stuff for free all the time. Now, in that particular case it isn't tip motivate, but he absolutely appreciates the regular reliable business. I think that regular reliable business is most important to many small restaurants, which is why you see so many of them offering punch/stamp cards to regulars. If you frequent small locations, it becomes clear pretty quickly that the business owners really do love regulars. If preferring repeat customers was actually bad for business, the business owner would be well within their rights to forbid tipping at their business and instead pay their staff the proper minimum wage. I suspect this isn't ever actually the case; either repeat business makes up a significant chunk of your business and is more valuable for its reliability, or your business is so touristy that the occasional regular getting better service has no significant impact. Maybe there is some sort of middle-ground between those two, but I suspect it is elusive.
dnskw 13y ago
If a waiter/waitress does a good job they will be more likely to get a better tip. If a waiter/waitress does a bad job they will get smaller / no tip. Now, they will not necessarily get a bigger tip or even necessarily get a tip if they do a wonderful job, but it does make some people.