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As an Android developer by day, and a BlackBerry developer by night, it boggles my mind why everyone thinks BB10 is crap, and that no one wants it. Spend 1 wee

As an Android developer by day, and a BlackBerry developer by night, it boggles my mind why everyone thinks BB10 is crap, and that no one wants it. Spend 1 week with a BlackBerry Z10 or Q10, and you'll see how great it actually is in comparison to other platforms. Spend some time developing an app for it in Qt and Cascades, and you'll see how great it is to develop for, in comparison to other platforms. People also need to realize that this isn't RIM; that company was big, sluggish, and full of idiots running it. BlackBerry is a much different company now. They're very humbled, and willing to listen to their customers and developers. As an example, I was looking at their Bluetooth APIs a few months ago, trying to figure out how to do out-of-band (OOB) pairing for a client. The APIs existed, but they were marked internal-use-only. I contacted their developer relations team, who put me in touch with the engineers so I could explain my use case. They said they'd review it and let me know. Lo and behold, in the new 10.2 beta SDK, those APIs are now available for all developers to use. It's one anecdotal example, but talk to others in the community and you'll hear many more like it.

bulltale 13y ago
I haven't used BB10 yet, but I am willing to believe you. However, I think the issue is that success on the mobile OS market is determined in a large part by the ecosystem around it. The ecosystem is heavily influenced by network effects (i.e. the more users, the higher the value of the network) en BB is way behind in this aspect. They still have many users but the amount of apps pale in comparison to Apple and Android. If Apple, Android, Windows and BlackBerry would all have started at the same time, we would have seen different results (maybe). But the simple fact remains that BB is very, very late to the game. And once market dominance is reached, as Apple and Android have, competitors can only change that dominance by being dramatically better. And I get the impression that BB10 is somewhat better. And that is not enough.
bluedino 13y ago
>> it boggles my mind why everything thinks BB10 is crap, and that no one wants it The brand is ruined, much like Yahoo, Myspace or AOL.
- gmrple 13y ago
  And why can't they be remade? It seems to me once upon a time Apple was in dire straights.
  - potatolicious 13y ago
    Perhaps it is being remade. They (finally, belatedly) got rid of the old guard at RIM, including the CEOs. The question is if Thorsten Heins can pull a Jobs. Which isn't a knock on him if he can't - after all, Steve Jobs was an extreme outlier in a field of extreme outliers. That said, Apple turned themselves by mostly abandoning their roots (big beige boxen) and go in a completely different, largely unprecedented direction - I don't see BB doing this. Even the iMac, iconic as it was, wasn't the turnaround point for Apple - iPod was.
    - fludlight 13y ago
      > Even the iMac, iconic as it was, wasn't the turnaround point for Apple - iPod was. Good point. Reminds me of Chrysler under Iaccoca. The K-car stopped the cash bleed and restored the company's reputation, but it was the minivan that made them fabulously profitable.
corry 13y ago
I think you answered your own question: "Why [does] everyone thinks BB10 is crap?" "[RIM] was big, sluggish, and full of idiots running it." Everything you write about BB being a new nimble company may be 100% true... but public perception lags truth, especially when many people have already written them off. The unfortunate thing is that brand/marketing has never been RIM's strong suit (a typical woe of Canadian tech giants), but it sounds like the "this-aint-your-grandfathers-RIM" story is crucial to their overall turnaround story.
grannyg00se 13y ago
BB10 may be nice but the damn thing still lacks apps. There's no point having a great phone and great OS with no app coverage. At least three times now in the past month someone has recommended an app to me an sure enough...no blackberry option. Android and iOS only. What I don't understand is why they don't force popular apps onto their platform. Even if no companies are jumping to develop for Blackberry, pay them to do it. Get them onto your platform with no cost on their end. Pay for ongoing support if necessary. App coverage is absolutely crucial and at this point, with BB10 being what it is, I'd say app coverage is now the #1 problem for their phones. They've gone pretty far down the crap slide now. Maybe they've given up.
- HorizonXP 13y ago
  They have tried to pay companies for apps, and they have in the past. It isn't enough. My company is an example, as are others.
  - grannyg00se 13y ago
    You mean they try to pay companies to develop apps for their platform and the companies refuse? Why would that be? Can you provide details about what happened with your company?
    - HorizonXP 13y ago
      That's precisely what happens, and ultimately it's because there are other interests at play. I cannot divulge any more information.
    - sirkneeland 13y ago
      I don't know the exact situations behind HorizonXP's company and their refusal, but having worked in devrel on two minority platforms, I can share with you some common reasons: -[small companies] even if you bought them a developer, it would impede their ability to be agile and pivot and iterate as they try to find something that works. It's hard enough to get them to support Android in addition to iOS, but getting them to support WP or BB10 is even harder -[big companies] don't need the money. Or would ask for outrageous fees (some companies have asked for north of $20 million, even for faddish apps) -[big companies] have an existing solution to do cross-platform development for iOS and Android and it's not worth it to redo it to add WP/BB support -[small companies] complete lack of familiarity with the Microsoft stack. -pressure from Apple or Google (usually Apple). I've had cases where a company gets favorable placement in the app store or in a commercial, or placement on the demo devices in a retail store and planned Windows ports are put "on ice" because they don't want to jeopardize their relationship with Apple (which of course has reserved the right to be as capricious and arbitrary with its app policies as they like) -personal dislike. Believe it or not, some companies are run by people who just have a personal dislike of BlackBerry or Microsoft that is so strong that they'd rather spite them than add to their customer base. It's incredibly immature, but nothing we can do about it.
guruz 13y ago
I've ordered a Q10 some days ago and hope I won't regret it. BB10 has an Android compatibility layer, so that might bring over some apps that might be still lacking.
- sirkneeland 13y ago
  the problem is that to encourage native app development, they've made it needlessly difficult to get those Android apps over. Either they have to convince the developer to convert the .apk to a BB10 .bar file and submit to BlackBerry World, or the use has to find an .apk (a legal gray area and logistical hassle) and sideload it to the device through a process that involves no official BlackBerry tools.
- dallagi 13y ago
  I own a Q10 and I love it. Really, I didn't think that it could be so good, but now I couldn't switch to android back. of course i't just MHO.

bulltale 13y ago

I haven't used BB10 yet, but I am willing to believe you. However, I think the issue is that success on the mobile OS market is determined in a large part by the ecosystem around it. The ecosystem is heavily influenced by network effects (i.e. the more users, the higher the value of the network) en BB is way behind in this aspect. They still have many users but the amount of apps pale in comparison to Apple and Android. If Apple, Android, Windows and BlackBerry would all have started at the same time, we would have seen different results (maybe). But the simple fact remains that BB is very, very late to the game. And once market dominance is reached, as Apple and Android have, competitors can only change that dominance by being dramatically better. And I get the impression that BB10 is somewhat better. And that is not enough.

bluedino 13y ago

>> it boggles my mind why everything thinks BB10 is crap, and that no one wants it The brand is ruined, much like Yahoo, Myspace or AOL.

gmrple 13y ago
And why can't they be remade? It seems to me once upon a time Apple was in dire straights.
- potatolicious 13y ago
  Perhaps it is being remade. They (finally, belatedly) got rid of the old guard at RIM, including the CEOs. The question is if Thorsten Heins can pull a Jobs. Which isn't a knock on him if he can't - after all, Steve Jobs was an extreme outlier in a field of extreme outliers. That said, Apple turned themselves by mostly abandoning their roots (big beige boxen) and go in a completely different, largely unprecedented direction - I don't see BB doing this. Even the iMac, iconic as it was, wasn't the turnaround point for Apple - iPod was.
  - fludlight 13y ago
    > Even the iMac, iconic as it was, wasn't the turnaround point for Apple - iPod was. Good point. Reminds me of Chrysler under Iaccoca. The K-car stopped the cash bleed and restored the company's reputation, but it was the minivan that made them fabulously profitable.

corry 13y ago

I think you answered your own question: "Why [does] everyone thinks BB10 is crap?" "[RIM] was big, sluggish, and full of idiots running it." Everything you write about BB being a new nimble company may be 100% true... but public perception lags truth, especially when many people have already written them off. The unfortunate thing is that brand/marketing has never been RIM's strong suit (a typical woe of Canadian tech giants), but it sounds like the "this-aint-your-grandfathers-RIM" story is crucial to their overall turnaround story.

grannyg00se 13y ago

BB10 may be nice but the damn thing still lacks apps. There's no point having a great phone and great OS with no app coverage. At least three times now in the past month someone has recommended an app to me an sure enough...no blackberry option. Android and iOS only. What I don't understand is why they don't force popular apps onto their platform. Even if no companies are jumping to develop for Blackberry, pay them to do it. Get them onto your platform with no cost on their end. Pay for ongoing support if necessary. App coverage is absolutely crucial and at this point, with BB10 being what it is, I'd say app coverage is now the #1 problem for their phones. They've gone pretty far down the crap slide now. Maybe they've given up.

HorizonXP 13y ago
They have tried to pay companies for apps, and they have in the past. It isn't enough. My company is an example, as are others.
- grannyg00se 13y ago
  You mean they try to pay companies to develop apps for their platform and the companies refuse? Why would that be? Can you provide details about what happened with your company?
  - HorizonXP 13y ago
    That's precisely what happens, and ultimately it's because there are other interests at play. I cannot divulge any more information.
  - sirkneeland 13y ago
    I don't know the exact situations behind HorizonXP's company and their refusal, but having worked in devrel on two minority platforms, I can share with you some common reasons: -[small companies] even if you bought them a developer, it would impede their ability to be agile and pivot and iterate as they try to find something that works. It's hard enough to get them to support Android in addition to iOS, but getting them to support WP or BB10 is even harder -[big companies] don't need the money. Or would ask for outrageous fees (some companies have asked for north of $20 million, even for faddish apps) -[big companies] have an existing solution to do cross-platform development for iOS and Android and it's not worth it to redo it to add WP/BB support -[small companies] complete lack of familiarity with the Microsoft stack. -pressure from Apple or Google (usually Apple). I've had cases where a company gets favorable placement in the app store or in a commercial, or placement on the demo devices in a retail store and planned Windows ports are put "on ice" because they don't want to jeopardize their relationship with Apple (which of course has reserved the right to be as capricious and arbitrary with its app policies as they like) -personal dislike. Believe it or not, some companies are run by people who just have a personal dislike of BlackBerry or Microsoft that is so strong that they'd rather spite them than add to their customer base. It's incredibly immature, but nothing we can do about it.

guruz 13y ago

I've ordered a Q10 some days ago and hope I won't regret it. BB10 has an Android compatibility layer, so that might bring over some apps that might be still lacking.

sirkneeland 13y ago
the problem is that to encourage native app development, they've made it needlessly difficult to get those Android apps over. Either they have to convince the developer to convert the .apk to a BB10 .bar file and submit to BlackBerry World, or the use has to find an .apk (a legal gray area and logistical hassle) and sideload it to the device through a process that involves no official BlackBerry tools.
dallagi 13y ago
I own a Q10 and I love it. Really, I didn't think that it could be so good, but now I couldn't switch to android back. of course i't just MHO.