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Firefox OS is not a small subset of Android and iOS, in the most part there are equivalent API's for the functionality, in a few places there is more available

Firefox OS is not a small subset of Android and iOS, in the most part there are equivalent API's for the functionality, in a few places there is more available on iOS / Android, in some places there is more available on Firefox OS (quite a lot in the case of iOS), anywhere were there is missing functionality it is no doubt in the works. (disclaimer, I work on Firefox OS)

anon1385 13y ago
So FirefoxOS extends the existing web standards with non-standard APIs Yes I'm sure you will 'submit' them as potential standards, but until the other vendors agree to them they are not standards. That is the huge and debilitating price that you pay by tying yourself to 'standards' - anything you want to do can be vetoed by your competitors. Anything not agreed upon is not a standard and can't be relied upon in a 'standards based' platform.
- daleharvey 13y ago
  Yup, Remember this is how every web standard came into being, it was not a standard at some point, By definition it needs 2 interoperable implementations. Some of these are already long on their way to being interoperable standards (getUserMedia), some of them may never be standardised, but that is the aim.
- kbenson 13y ago
  This is an OS on a phone, not an app on a phone or desktop. Since their audience is specifically people buying the phones and the app makers are targeting only those people, there are no other implementations to worry about. FirefoxOS is the standard for these devices at this point, and whatever they do is then standard.
  - daleharvey 13y ago
    This isnt necessarily true, even with telephony pretty much all the API's have implications, existing standards and/or prior art outside of the mobile. All of the API's are available via Gecko, the same Gecko that is used for desktop and android firefox, a lot of them already work on desktop (I have installed a few apps build for firefox os on my desktop).
  - anon1385 13y ago
    The central questions are will FirefoxOS apps run on other platforms today without modification and will they ever. The answer today seems to be 'it depends if you use the FirefoxOS specific APIs or not', which is the same as the answer for Android or iOS webapps. The other mobile OSs already run webapps. What does FirefoxOS bring to the table other than price? Why will developers be attracted to a platform where the users only use it because they can't afford anything else? I guess Mozilla thinks that there are devs picking between writing a native and html based app and that getting FirefoxOS support fairly easily by using HTML will sway that decision. I don't see that happening though since FirefoxOS users won't be spending much money on apps and there won't be comparable numbers of users any time soon; getting free iOS or Android support (whichever is your secondary market) is already a much more compelling argument for using HTML, but one that doesn't seem to be winning in the marketplace.
    - kbenson 13y ago
      I think the only reason people may see a standard problem with this is because they see it as a web browser first, and as a phone OS second. If it was built as a platform and did not have the capability to view web pages, would anyone complain that they took JS and extended it to offer the local app capabilities they needed? I think it depends on how you view it. Is it a browser that also happens to power the core of the OS, or is at an OS that also happens to be a browser? I don't think where it came from originally has any bearing in the answer.
    - JohnTHaller 13y ago
      The thing is, Firefox for desktop and Firefox for Android could implement those APIs and then implement 'installing' apps from the web that use those APIs, making them cross-platform. And, since the APIs and all code is open source, other browser makers would be free to implement it. Note that it won't be available on iOS, of course, as Apple won't let alternative browsers be installed, just skins for Mobile Safari like Dolphin and Google Chrome.
      - rhelmer 13y ago
        > The thing is, Firefox for desktop and Firefox for Android could implement those APIs and then implement 'installing' apps from the web that use those APIs, making them cross-platform. And, since the APIs and all code is open source, other browser makers would be free to implement it. This is already the case - check out http://marketplace.firefox.com/ http://marketplace.firefox.com/ on desktop or android Firefox. However - note that app developers can choose to only support certain form factors. Many do support desktop however, for example https://marketplace.firefox.com/app/pasjanssolitaire https://marketplace.firefox.com/app/pasjanssolitaire Desktop does not support all of the new WebAPIs currently though (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAPI https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAPI), and certainly some may not be relevant on all platforms.
rimantas 13y ago
It would be nice if you listed what more Firefox OS provides. And I cannot seriously buy "in the most part there are equivalent API's for the functionality", unless you are using some creative definition of the word "most".
- daleharvey 13y ago
  https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI has a list

anon1385 13y ago

So FirefoxOS extends the existing web standards with non-standard APIs Yes I'm sure you will 'submit' them as potential standards, but until the other vendors agree to them they are not standards. That is the huge and debilitating price that you pay by tying yourself to 'standards' - anything you want to do can be vetoed by your competitors. Anything not agreed upon is not a standard and can't be relied upon in a 'standards based' platform.

daleharvey 13y ago
Yup, Remember this is how every web standard came into being, it was not a standard at some point, By definition it needs 2 interoperable implementations. Some of these are already long on their way to being interoperable standards (getUserMedia), some of them may never be standardised, but that is the aim.
kbenson 13y ago
This is an OS on a phone, not an app on a phone or desktop. Since their audience is specifically people buying the phones and the app makers are targeting only those people, there are no other implementations to worry about. FirefoxOS is the standard for these devices at this point, and whatever they do is then standard.
- daleharvey 13y ago
  This isnt necessarily true, even with telephony pretty much all the API's have implications, existing standards and/or prior art outside of the mobile. All of the API's are available via Gecko, the same Gecko that is used for desktop and android firefox, a lot of them already work on desktop (I have installed a few apps build for firefox os on my desktop).
- anon1385 13y ago
  The central questions are will FirefoxOS apps run on other platforms today without modification and will they ever. The answer today seems to be 'it depends if you use the FirefoxOS specific APIs or not', which is the same as the answer for Android or iOS webapps. The other mobile OSs already run webapps. What does FirefoxOS bring to the table other than price? Why will developers be attracted to a platform where the users only use it because they can't afford anything else? I guess Mozilla thinks that there are devs picking between writing a native and html based app and that getting FirefoxOS support fairly easily by using HTML will sway that decision. I don't see that happening though since FirefoxOS users won't be spending much money on apps and there won't be comparable numbers of users any time soon; getting free iOS or Android support (whichever is your secondary market) is already a much more compelling argument for using HTML, but one that doesn't seem to be winning in the marketplace.
  - kbenson 13y ago
    I think the only reason people may see a standard problem with this is because they see it as a web browser first, and as a phone OS second. If it was built as a platform and did not have the capability to view web pages, would anyone complain that they took JS and extended it to offer the local app capabilities they needed? I think it depends on how you view it. Is it a browser that also happens to power the core of the OS, or is at an OS that also happens to be a browser? I don't think where it came from originally has any bearing in the answer.
  - JohnTHaller 13y ago
    The thing is, Firefox for desktop and Firefox for Android could implement those APIs and then implement 'installing' apps from the web that use those APIs, making them cross-platform. And, since the APIs and all code is open source, other browser makers would be free to implement it. Note that it won't be available on iOS, of course, as Apple won't let alternative browsers be installed, just skins for Mobile Safari like Dolphin and Google Chrome.
    - rhelmer 13y ago
      > The thing is, Firefox for desktop and Firefox for Android could implement those APIs and then implement 'installing' apps from the web that use those APIs, making them cross-platform. And, since the APIs and all code is open source, other browser makers would be free to implement it. This is already the case - check out http://marketplace.firefox.com/ http://marketplace.firefox.com/ on desktop or android Firefox. However - note that app developers can choose to only support certain form factors. Many do support desktop however, for example https://marketplace.firefox.com/app/pasjanssolitaire https://marketplace.firefox.com/app/pasjanssolitaire Desktop does not support all of the new WebAPIs currently though (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAPI https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAPI), and certainly some may not be relevant on all platforms.

rimantas 13y ago

It would be nice if you listed what more Firefox OS provides. And I cannot seriously buy "in the most part there are equivalent API's for the functionality", unless you are using some creative definition of the word "most".

daleharvey 13y ago
https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI has a list