6 ms·

Why did I reimplement Jekyll using NoFlo

28 points by bergie 13y ago

cbhl 13y ago
> other data sources that the file system I think you mean "sources than the" here.
- bergie 13y ago
  Thanks, fix pushed!
bergie 13y ago
Repository is at https://github.com/the-grid/noflo-jekyll https://github.com/the-grid/noflo-jekyll
skore 13y ago
Didn't know about NoFlo before this, previous discussions here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6139509 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6139509 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6144951 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6144951 The UI looks neat, but the kickstarter video was a mixed bag. Did somebody tell a bunch of people to talk very loudly? Was that the plan to make it "engaging"? Because it did unfortunately have a touch of bro-gramming.* I'm not sure whether it really is the killer approach to writing software. Where I do see it is in customization. A lot of business logic programming relies on offering flexibility on an intermediary level. Providing the right components for software integrators seems like a very good idea. You'll still need text-based programmers to do the grunt- and architectural work, of course. Because no matter what the fancy graphics convey: Somebody is going to need to sit in front of a screen and type text into an editor. Finally - all this and no online demo to check out? Am I missing the crucial link? [Edit] Found this: http://meemoo.org/dataflow/ http://meemoo.org/dataflow/ *Not all of it did - I'm not going to call J Paul Morrison a bro-grammer - but I really don't need people to seem worked up in a video at all. It just seems somewhat artificial, like a comedian dying of laughter from a joke they have already told to hundreds of audiences.
- skore 13y ago
  Sidenote: "If your bottom-line is dependent on code, you know the angst of asking a programmer, “How long will {{ insert feature }} take?” You know programmers can jargon-speak their way to your consent and when everything comes crashing down, you are to blame. NoFlo frees your businesses from a labyrinth of text files so you can get-a-grip on what-the-hell-is-going-on!" Really? Really? [Post Downvoting] No seriously - If you tell people that NoFlo is the solution to prevent programmers from "jargon-speaking" their way to your doom then... Sorry, that's just a lie with a topping of polarization. The way to prevent programmers messing up your business is to not hire shit programmers and manage good programmers properly. Not hiring the programmers with the fanciest visualization.
- bergie 13y ago
  Well, there is little to demo before the UI is ready, and that is what we're doing the Kickstarter for :-) A little bit more in this video: https://vimeo.com/cbase/noflo https://vimeo.com/cbase/noflo (also, see http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/noflo-two-years/ http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/noflo-two-years/)
  - skore 13y ago
    Your post is about using NoFlo to rebuild Jekyll. So you're saying that you did that without the UI? If yes, that's not really rebuilding Jekyll in NoFlo. If no - sharing an interface that I can try and tweak is the single best way to quell concerns and incite support. I might have a use case for a flow UI - not FBP, but a niche of an application that might be best suited to be administered with precisely this kind of flow UI. Pretty soon, I will have to make a decision on what to use there. NoFlo looks like a very strong contender, but I've had a couple of them, even with mature codebases, that turned out to be nice in theory, but not usable in practice.
    - bergie 13y ago
      NoFlo is an engine first of all... And now we're building a UI for it. But that doesn't change the fact that you can still create flows in text if you really want to :-) But I have to admit, I wished we had the UI every step of this project!
CmonDev 13y ago
Why are they putting that pony-tail dude on every photo? Is he some sort of programming celebrity?
- bergie 13y ago
  Nope, but I started NoFlo. Among some other open source things :-)
- rjknight 13y ago
  Not yet, no.
joeblau 13y ago
Thanks for this post. It's a really cool example of using NoFlo to refactor a project. I'm actually about to start using Jekyll on a project, but since I'm more into Node I might go with the NoFlo implementation.
jdmitch 13y ago
great post! bad kerning :(

28 points by bergie 13y ago

cbhl 13y ago

> other data sources that the file system I think you mean "sources than the" here.

bergie 13y ago
Thanks, fix pushed!

bergie 13y ago

Repository is at https://github.com/the-grid/noflo-jekyll https://github.com/the-grid/noflo-jekyll

skore 13y ago

Didn't know about NoFlo before this, previous discussions here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6139509 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6139509 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6144951 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6144951 The UI looks neat, but the kickstarter video was a mixed bag. Did somebody tell a bunch of people to talk very loudly? Was that the plan to make it "engaging"? Because it did unfortunately have a touch of bro-gramming.* I'm not sure whether it really is the killer approach to writing software. Where I do see it is in customization. A lot of business logic programming relies on offering flexibility on an intermediary level. Providing the right components for software integrators seems like a very good idea. You'll still need text-based programmers to do the grunt- and architectural work, of course. Because no matter what the fancy graphics convey: Somebody is going to need to sit in front of a screen and type text into an editor. Finally - all this and no online demo to check out? Am I missing the crucial link? [Edit] Found this: http://meemoo.org/dataflow/ http://meemoo.org/dataflow/ *Not all of it did - I'm not going to call J Paul Morrison a bro-grammer - but I really don't need people to seem worked up in a video at all. It just seems somewhat artificial, like a comedian dying of laughter from a joke they have already told to hundreds of audiences.

skore 13y ago
Sidenote: "If your bottom-line is dependent on code, you know the angst of asking a programmer, “How long will {{ insert feature }} take?” You know programmers can jargon-speak their way to your consent and when everything comes crashing down, you are to blame. NoFlo frees your businesses from a labyrinth of text files so you can get-a-grip on what-the-hell-is-going-on!" Really? Really? [Post Downvoting] No seriously - If you tell people that NoFlo is the solution to prevent programmers from "jargon-speaking" their way to your doom then... Sorry, that's just a lie with a topping of polarization. The way to prevent programmers messing up your business is to not hire shit programmers and manage good programmers properly. Not hiring the programmers with the fanciest visualization.
bergie 13y ago
Well, there is little to demo before the UI is ready, and that is what we're doing the Kickstarter for :-) A little bit more in this video: https://vimeo.com/cbase/noflo https://vimeo.com/cbase/noflo (also, see http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/noflo-two-years/ http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/noflo-two-years/)
- skore 13y ago
  Your post is about using NoFlo to rebuild Jekyll. So you're saying that you did that without the UI? If yes, that's not really rebuilding Jekyll in NoFlo. If no - sharing an interface that I can try and tweak is the single best way to quell concerns and incite support. I might have a use case for a flow UI - not FBP, but a niche of an application that might be best suited to be administered with precisely this kind of flow UI. Pretty soon, I will have to make a decision on what to use there. NoFlo looks like a very strong contender, but I've had a couple of them, even with mature codebases, that turned out to be nice in theory, but not usable in practice.
  - bergie 13y ago
    NoFlo is an engine first of all... And now we're building a UI for it. But that doesn't change the fact that you can still create flows in text if you really want to :-) But I have to admit, I wished we had the UI every step of this project!

CmonDev 13y ago

Why are they putting that pony-tail dude on every photo? Is he some sort of programming celebrity?

bergie 13y ago
Nope, but I started NoFlo. Among some other open source things :-)
rjknight 13y ago
Not yet, no.

joeblau 13y ago

Thanks for this post. It's a really cool example of using NoFlo to refactor a project. I'm actually about to start using Jekyll on a project, but since I'm more into Node I might go with the NoFlo implementation.

jdmitch 13y ago

great post! bad kerning :(