8 ms·

Yeah I think comparing her to Galileo, Newton and Einstein is a little over the top. That is so typical feminism, trying to frame things as if bad things happe

by Tichy 13y ago

Yeah I think comparing her to Galileo, Newton and Einstein is a little over the top. That is so typical feminism, trying to frame things as if bad things happened to her just because she was a woman. If I remember correctly, Einstein was also not believed by the physics authorities of his time at first - he didn't even get a job in academics, remember? Galileo was almost burnt on the stake for his research. Professors trying to steal their students work also happens all the time. There is a debate that Newton might have stolen calculus from Leibniz. Not saying these things are OK, but they didn't happen because Cecilia was a woman. If she is not as famous as other physicists, perhaps it is because her work simply didn't inspire the imagination of people as much. Marie Curie is famous, and she is a woman. Also her name might simply be harder to remember than other names. Life is a bitch. To be honest, my brain just goes "Cecilia prubschichdjadfw-whatever" when I read her name. That's not fair, but it is not because she is a woman, it's just that her name is longwinded and foreign. Maybe Marie Curie is only famous because Kraftwerk made a song about her, and Einstein is only famous because there is that iconic picture where he sticks out his tongue. I don't think many people adore physicists because they understand the actual physics. Everybody can write down e=mc^2 and probably even know that they wrote down something significant. If you want Cecilia DJSjug-whatever to be famous, make a better story. Make a song about her, create an iconic formula, whatever. Don't complain that she is a female victim. In fact she seems to have been quite successful anyway.

quinnchr 13y ago
On the other hand we have tons of data on how women in science are currently treated, and I don't think it's a huge leap to assume things used to be worse. So yes I'm pretty sure it's because she was a woman. "according to the National Science Foundation research, after examining other factors such as age, experience, and education as the causes of why there is a gap in success between men and women, they concluded that discrimination is the only explanation for the poor positions and salaries of women and minorities." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_science#Statistics_about_women_in_science http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_science#Statistics_abo...
- tuttotutti 13y ago
  And it can't be because there are more men geniuses than women (as statistics on iq point out) or because men are naturally more interested in some subjects than women (which has also been the subject of studies and demonstrated). Nope, we have to come up with a conspiracy theory which places the blame on, as always, evil white men. This is why nobody takes feminists seriously.
  - quinnchr 13y ago
    And you are why no one takes white men complaining about feminists seriously... Care to back up any of your outrageous assertions? Do you actually know anything about feminism? Because all of your points have been addressed in feminist literature ad infinitum.
    - Tichy 13y ago
      And evolution theory has been addressed ad infinitum by religious groups... Care to give any links?
      - quinnchr 13y ago
        Well I was asking for evidence to back up the parent's argument. Not sure why the burden of proof is on me, but since you asked: I would think it should be obvious, but women test equally or higher then men on IQ: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/201207/men-women-and-iq-setting-the-record-straight http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/201207/m... As for the second part you're going to have to do some reading on your own. Believe it or not not all feminists think the exact same way. Some schools of feminist thought would agree that there are some inherent differences between men and women, others would vehemently disagree. For more information read about difference feminism vs. postmodern feminism.
        Tichy 13y ago
        The theory about IQ is not that the averages are higher, but that the distribution is different. Supposedly there are more very intelligent and more very stupid men than women. So the average IQs will be roughly the same, but there are more high IQ men. Of course high IQ women do exist, just apparently less frequent. One article that explains that is http://triggeralert.blogspot.de/2010/10/is-there-anything-good-about-men.html http://triggeralert.blogspot.de/2010/10/is-there-anything-go... The article you linked to only addresses averages. As for not all feminists thinking the same way: yes, they keep claiming that, but I have yet to see an exception. My impression is that all feminism ultimately tries to portray women as victims (of the "patriarchy", a conveniently nebulous concept), and in turn want to claim special rights for women as a compensation. If you can provide exceptions to that, I'd welcome it. Certainly this pamphlet about Cecilia Payne was a prime example of that pattern.
cgh 13y ago
At the time she was at Cambridge, her last name was Payne. It's clear you didn't read the article and have an axe to grind.
- Tichy 13y ago
  Well as I said, if you want her to be famous, just call her Cecile Payne from now on. My point is that her relative fame probably has little to do with being a woman. Of course maybe now she'll become famous for the only reason that she is a woman. I think that qualifies as irony... I don't have an issue with the Wikipedia article, only with this feminist pamphlet that suggests she would be as famous as Einstein if she weren't a woman https://twitter.com/marcuschown/status/366132278381903874/photo/1 https://twitter.com/marcuschown/status/366132278381903874/ph...
pinaceae 13y ago
are you fucking retarded? Marie Skłodowska-Curie won two nobel prices - in two different areas of research. The only human being so far of any gender to accomplish this feat. and yeah, her full name just rolls of the tongue for non-Polish speakers.
- Tichy 13y ago
  Huh what is your problem? I said that Marie Curie is famous (and definitely nobody knows the Skoldowokski-part of her name - today is the first time I heard that). Are you saying that Cecile should be as famous as Marie? Or only as famous as "lesser" physicists like Einstein or Newton? And you only confirm my point. I was going to suggest that if "we" (or feminists or whoever) want Cecile to be successful, we should just refer to her as Cecile Payne from now on.
  - pinaceae 13y ago
    no, YOU don't know it. wikipedia knows it (the article on her lists her full name). anybody who looks for her on the internet thereby knows it. anybody who ever had more than 5sec of interest in her knows it. it's not the rest of the world - it's you. because the rest of the world absolutely needs to change their names so that english speaking idiots like you have an easier life. and still you could cope with schwarzenegger, go figure.
    - Tichy 13y ago
      You didn't even get the point of my comment, which is that she (Payne) is not not famous because she is a woman. There are lots of other reasons that affect fame. A catchy name is just one example. This whole thing is completely ridiculous, because lets face it, nobody cares about physicists. You think people on the street, or feminists, care about physicists? The ones that are known, like Einstein or Newton or Galileo, are all known for the narrative around it (Newton has the falling Apple, Galileo the burning, Einstein the tongue picture and the "bad in maths" legend). To claim that some physicist is not known because she is a woman is just ridiculous. I dare you to walk out of your house or office and ask people on the street what "Marie Curie" means to them, and if they know her Polish name, too. For more fun, ask "who discovered radioactivity" without mentioning the name. Perhaps they know Curie because they worry about radioactivity, but that's probably about it (what was her other Nobel for anyway?). The consistency of stars doesn't worry people so much, so they don't know Payne - simple as that. Anyway, the name was not even the point. But since you are apparently somewhat illiterate, of course you didn't realize that. Btw I think your replies are very rude. Would you talk the same if you had any identifiable information on your profile? I would surely blacklist you for life according to your behavior. Not that I'd ever run into you (I think you live in the US), but still. Edit: also I am not actually a native speaker of English. Edit 2: for more fun, try to hum the Kraftwerk song "Radioactivity" using Curie's full name.

by Tichy 13y ago

quinnchr 13y ago

On the other hand we have tons of data on how women in science are currently treated, and I don't think it's a huge leap to assume things used to be worse. So yes I'm pretty sure it's because she was a woman. "according to the National Science Foundation research, after examining other factors such as age, experience, and education as the causes of why there is a gap in success between men and women, they concluded that discrimination is the only explanation for the poor positions and salaries of women and minorities." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_science#Statistics_about_women_in_science http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_science#Statistics_abo...

tuttotutti 13y ago
And it can't be because there are more men geniuses than women (as statistics on iq point out) or because men are naturally more interested in some subjects than women (which has also been the subject of studies and demonstrated). Nope, we have to come up with a conspiracy theory which places the blame on, as always, evil white men. This is why nobody takes feminists seriously.
- quinnchr 13y ago
  And you are why no one takes white men complaining about feminists seriously... Care to back up any of your outrageous assertions? Do you actually know anything about feminism? Because all of your points have been addressed in feminist literature ad infinitum.
  - Tichy 13y ago
    And evolution theory has been addressed ad infinitum by religious groups... Care to give any links?
    - quinnchr 13y ago
      Well I was asking for evidence to back up the parent's argument. Not sure why the burden of proof is on me, but since you asked: I would think it should be obvious, but women test equally or higher then men on IQ: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/201207/men-women-and-iq-setting-the-record-straight http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/201207/m... As for the second part you're going to have to do some reading on your own. Believe it or not not all feminists think the exact same way. Some schools of feminist thought would agree that there are some inherent differences between men and women, others would vehemently disagree. For more information read about difference feminism vs. postmodern feminism.
      - Tichy 13y ago
        The theory about IQ is not that the averages are higher, but that the distribution is different. Supposedly there are more very intelligent and more very stupid men than women. So the average IQs will be roughly the same, but there are more high IQ men. Of course high IQ women do exist, just apparently less frequent. One article that explains that is http://triggeralert.blogspot.de/2010/10/is-there-anything-good-about-men.html http://triggeralert.blogspot.de/2010/10/is-there-anything-go... The article you linked to only addresses averages. As for not all feminists thinking the same way: yes, they keep claiming that, but I have yet to see an exception. My impression is that all feminism ultimately tries to portray women as victims (of the "patriarchy", a conveniently nebulous concept), and in turn want to claim special rights for women as a compensation. If you can provide exceptions to that, I'd welcome it. Certainly this pamphlet about Cecilia Payne was a prime example of that pattern.

cgh 13y ago

At the time she was at Cambridge, her last name was Payne. It's clear you didn't read the article and have an axe to grind.

Tichy 13y ago
Well as I said, if you want her to be famous, just call her Cecile Payne from now on. My point is that her relative fame probably has little to do with being a woman. Of course maybe now she'll become famous for the only reason that she is a woman. I think that qualifies as irony... I don't have an issue with the Wikipedia article, only with this feminist pamphlet that suggests she would be as famous as Einstein if she weren't a woman https://twitter.com/marcuschown/status/366132278381903874/photo/1 https://twitter.com/marcuschown/status/366132278381903874/ph...

pinaceae 13y ago

are you fucking retarded? Marie Skłodowska-Curie won two nobel prices - in two different areas of research. The only human being so far of any gender to accomplish this feat. and yeah, her full name just rolls of the tongue for non-Polish speakers.

Tichy 13y ago
Huh what is your problem? I said that Marie Curie is famous (and definitely nobody knows the Skoldowokski-part of her name - today is the first time I heard that). Are you saying that Cecile should be as famous as Marie? Or only as famous as "lesser" physicists like Einstein or Newton? And you only confirm my point. I was going to suggest that if "we" (or feminists or whoever) want Cecile to be successful, we should just refer to her as Cecile Payne from now on.
- pinaceae 13y ago
  no, YOU don't know it. wikipedia knows it (the article on her lists her full name). anybody who looks for her on the internet thereby knows it. anybody who ever had more than 5sec of interest in her knows it. it's not the rest of the world - it's you. because the rest of the world absolutely needs to change their names so that english speaking idiots like you have an easier life. and still you could cope with schwarzenegger, go figure.
  - Tichy 13y ago
    You didn't even get the point of my comment, which is that she (Payne) is not not famous because she is a woman. There are lots of other reasons that affect fame. A catchy name is just one example. This whole thing is completely ridiculous, because lets face it, nobody cares about physicists. You think people on the street, or feminists, care about physicists? The ones that are known, like Einstein or Newton or Galileo, are all known for the narrative around it (Newton has the falling Apple, Galileo the burning, Einstein the tongue picture and the "bad in maths" legend). To claim that some physicist is not known because she is a woman is just ridiculous. I dare you to walk out of your house or office and ask people on the street what "Marie Curie" means to them, and if they know her Polish name, too. For more fun, ask "who discovered radioactivity" without mentioning the name. Perhaps they know Curie because they worry about radioactivity, but that's probably about it (what was her other Nobel for anyway?). The consistency of stars doesn't worry people so much, so they don't know Payne - simple as that. Anyway, the name was not even the point. But since you are apparently somewhat illiterate, of course you didn't realize that. Btw I think your replies are very rude. Would you talk the same if you had any identifiable information on your profile? I would surely blacklist you for life according to your behavior. Not that I'd ever run into you (I think you live in the US), but still. Edit: also I am not actually a native speaker of English. Edit 2: for more fun, try to hum the Kraftwerk song "Radioactivity" using Curie's full name.