4 ms·

Manufactured stuff is "information poor"? What does that mean?

by zackattack 17y ago

pg 17y ago
I mean in the information theoretic sense. A 3d representation of it would compress well.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- thras 17y ago
  Christopher Alexander (the original design pattern guy) has a somewhat similar view. Except that he took four books to say it. The books are quite beautiful though.
- euccastro 17y ago
  I don't think it's the amount of information that we crave. Traditional japanese living spaces would compress well, yet they look like personal, interesting places to inhabit. Conversely, a messy manufactured home is information rich, but I don't think it would quench your 'thirst' in the same way. I think it's meaning we crave, and if we can get it with a better signal to noise ratio, that's more peace of mind for us. That said, the 'noise' in the shape and texture of natural materials compresses away as generic texture. I think we have evolved to interpret that effortlessly in hardware. The noise of a waterfall can give us peace while the noise of traffic usually has the opposite effect. More interestingly, we can selectively turn off this mechanism to appreciate natural shapes and textures in their full depth. A tree can be very information rich if we direct our attention to it, while at the same time it's easy to filter it out as 'ok, tree here' without further anxiety. A landscape typically has a lot of information in it, but if we can find a pattern that summarizes its overall shape, its beauty just hits us as something really simple, without need for intense attention or effort in interpretation.
  - pg 17y ago
    I wouldn't disagree that merely increasing information content is not enough. Adding noise would do that. But I think a lot of the reason traditional Japanese houses feel comforting is that they do not, in fact, compress well. Close up, they're not simple: in the textures of the natural materials, the details of the handmade joints, etc.
    - netsp 17y ago
      There seems to be some sort of difference though. A manufactured version of traditional Japanese houses would feel a lot closer to the handmade then a manufactured version of this hobbit house.
kirubakaran 17y ago
"Bland" [on applying lossy compression to pg's comments (parent and child of your comment)]
- pg 17y ago
  Shallow might be better.

Manufactured stuff is "information poor"? What does that mean?

pg 17y ago

I mean in the information theoretic sense. A 3d representation of it would compress well.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
thras 17y ago
Christopher Alexander (the original design pattern guy) has a somewhat similar view. Except that he took four books to say it. The books are quite beautiful though.
euccastro 17y ago
I don't think it's the amount of information that we crave. Traditional japanese living spaces would compress well, yet they look like personal, interesting places to inhabit. Conversely, a messy manufactured home is information rich, but I don't think it would quench your 'thirst' in the same way. I think it's meaning we crave, and if we can get it with a better signal to noise ratio, that's more peace of mind for us. That said, the 'noise' in the shape and texture of natural materials compresses away as generic texture. I think we have evolved to interpret that effortlessly in hardware. The noise of a waterfall can give us peace while the noise of traffic usually has the opposite effect. More interestingly, we can selectively turn off this mechanism to appreciate natural shapes and textures in their full depth. A tree can be very information rich if we direct our attention to it, while at the same time it's easy to filter it out as 'ok, tree here' without further anxiety. A landscape typically has a lot of information in it, but if we can find a pattern that summarizes its overall shape, its beauty just hits us as something really simple, without need for intense attention or effort in interpretation.
- pg 17y ago
  I wouldn't disagree that merely increasing information content is not enough. Adding noise would do that. But I think a lot of the reason traditional Japanese houses feel comforting is that they do not, in fact, compress well. Close up, they're not simple: in the textures of the natural materials, the details of the handmade joints, etc.
  - netsp 17y ago
    There seems to be some sort of difference though. A manufactured version of traditional Japanese houses would feel a lot closer to the handmade then a manufactured version of this hobbit house.

kirubakaran 17y ago

"Bland" [on applying lossy compression to pg's comments (parent and child of your comment)]

pg 17y ago
Shallow might be better.