5 ms·

My interesting experience with the TSA

20 points by guynamedloren 13y ago

angersock 13y ago
What's troubling here in the article is the implicit assumption that the TSA has any business knowing who is traveling on what planes. Why don't we allow anybody with a ticket to show up and buy a ticket to anywhere else if they can afford it? Freedom of movement is very important, as is privacy--it seems we've lost sight of this fact.
- tptacek 13y ago
  There is still more freedom of movement in the US than there is in any comparably large area of the world; one of the most jarring things about traveling in Europe to me was the extent to which my identity was routinely challenged.
  - Udo 13y ago
    >one of the most jarring things about traveling in Europe to me was the extent to which my identity was routinely challenged. Could you elaborate on that? There are a lot of countries where no passport control at all is taking place if you're coming in from another EU country. Granted, as a EU citizen I might have an easier time moving around overall, but in my experience the EU feels more like one big country than a patchwork of smaller ones - and I move around here a lot. Going on a cross-country flight within the US is usually significantly more hassle than hopping from Frankfurt to Oslo. Once you're in the EU you should be able to move freely. What happened to you?
    - tptacek 13y ago
      Nothing bad; I was just routinely forced to hand over my passport. And, on a train from Zurich to Prague, my bags were taken off the overhead rack and searched. Remember, when we Americans want to make the point that we're different from Europe, we say "papers, please!" to make fun of it. The idea is supposed to be that we don't do "papers, please!" here. Unfortunately, we've lost a bit of that in the last 15 years, but we're still only approaching Europe.
      - Udo 13y ago
        > Unfortunately, we've lost a bit of that in the last 15 years, but we're still only approaching Europe. You say that with a degree of certainty that deserves to be challenged. You can travel through large swaths of the EU without showing your passport even once. This week I was in France, Italy, Switzerland, Austria, and Germany all by car, all without needing my passport (except hotels, but they do that everywhere in the world). Although it has gotten stricter in the last few years, flights from Germany to Norway, Sweden, or Denmark could routinely be boarded without showing any ID until recently. I live near the French border in Germany, but you wouldn't even know when you're crossing it. In "heartland" Europe, there are often no border stations at all. Sometimes you just notice you changed countries because the street signs look slightly different. Compared to a lot of other countries, including the US, EU police are doing almost no traffic stops or other forms of public "papers, please" checks. The last time I was in a traffic stop was about 5 years ago, and I accrue about 50k kilometers a year. Compare that to a random Asian country where police are sometimes lying in wait near ambiguous signage in order to catch expensive-looking rental cars passing through, or compare that to a rural sheriff in a southern US state who likes to capture (and throw in jail for a few hours with great fanfare) people passing by in out-of-state cars when they predictably go a little above the draconian speed limit on the completely empty and straight highway. In Cairo, you can't even drive downtown from the airport without being stopped for ID at least twice. Maybe I'm missing a bit of the picture because I don't like to go by train, but overall movement in Europe seems a lot less restricted than pretty much everywhere else I've been to.
        X4 13y ago
        I'm sorry, but you both don't understand it. The police has training in identifying persons of interest or suspicious looking people. Tourists are more routinely controlled, but I believe that black persons are more often controlled for their passports (because police suspect them of staying illegal in the country, or it's simply racism, idk). I can say that, because I travel a lot, with all types of public transportation. WIth a car you only have ID-Checks at borders, sometimes.
        13y ago
  - soneil 13y ago
    Really? I find that surprising (re: Europe) - I'm quite surprised the airlines still require ID here, the borders don't. I've taken trains from Hungary to France with less ID requirements than Amtrak.
  - anu_gupta 13y ago
    Canada is bigger than the US and has as at least as much freedom of movement as the US.
    - tptacek 13y ago
      That sounds like a good point. Are you familiar with the laws in Canada regarding identification? Can you be randomly stopped simply to confirm your identity in Canada?
      - parliament32 13y ago
        It depends. If you get stopped by police (while in a car or on foot), they will almost always ask for ID, but there also must be an actual reason for them to stop you. "Hello sir, the reason I stopped you today was because one of your taillights was out... You'll fix that when you get home? Great. Can I have a look at your ID and registration before I let you go?" The closest I've ever come to a "random stop" was being pulled over at 3am and asked for ID because "a car similar to yours was recently stolen in the area, I just want to make sure this is your car". When travelling by transit/train, you will never be asked for ID. When crossing provinces (aka "states" in the US), you will never be asked for ID. You will always be asked for ID when you pre-paid for something under your name (hotel, flight within Canada, etc).
jey 13y ago
Come on now, Security Theater is for your own good.
carsongross 13y ago
'Do better, TSA'? Please, God, no. Don't do better.
pmorici 13y ago
They don't hire for the "id checker" position based on intelligence.
- X4 13y ago
  That guy isn't stupid or less intelligent, don't underestimate people! He's just ignorant. Never ever underestimate ignorance, dear pmorici. Ignorance brought as war, death, mass murder and governments..whoops how did governments slip in here? ;)
PhantomGremlin 13y ago
In that photo Loren does look like a girl. The TSA agent was simply performing her bit role in Security Theater, I'd say that the "transaction" went pretty well. The interaction appears to have taken less than a minute. I fail to see how he "almost didn't make it through security".

20 points by guynamedloren 13y ago

What's troubling here in the article is the implicit assumption that the TSA has any business knowing who is traveling on what planes. Why don't we allow anybody with a ticket to show up and buy a ticket to anywhere else if they can afford it? Freedom of movement is very important, as is privacy--it seems we've lost sight of this fact.

tptacek 13y ago
There is still more freedom of movement in the US than there is in any comparably large area of the world; one of the most jarring things about traveling in Europe to me was the extent to which my identity was routinely challenged.
- Udo 13y ago
  >one of the most jarring things about traveling in Europe to me was the extent to which my identity was routinely challenged. Could you elaborate on that? There are a lot of countries where no passport control at all is taking place if you're coming in from another EU country. Granted, as a EU citizen I might have an easier time moving around overall, but in my experience the EU feels more like one big country than a patchwork of smaller ones - and I move around here a lot. Going on a cross-country flight within the US is usually significantly more hassle than hopping from Frankfurt to Oslo. Once you're in the EU you should be able to move freely. What happened to you?
  - tptacek 13y ago
    Nothing bad; I was just routinely forced to hand over my passport. And, on a train from Zurich to Prague, my bags were taken off the overhead rack and searched. Remember, when we Americans want to make the point that we're different from Europe, we say "papers, please!" to make fun of it. The idea is supposed to be that we don't do "papers, please!" here. Unfortunately, we've lost a bit of that in the last 15 years, but we're still only approaching Europe.
    - Udo 13y ago
      > Unfortunately, we've lost a bit of that in the last 15 years, but we're still only approaching Europe. You say that with a degree of certainty that deserves to be challenged. You can travel through large swaths of the EU without showing your passport even once. This week I was in France, Italy, Switzerland, Austria, and Germany all by car, all without needing my passport (except hotels, but they do that everywhere in the world). Although it has gotten stricter in the last few years, flights from Germany to Norway, Sweden, or Denmark could routinely be boarded without showing any ID until recently. I live near the French border in Germany, but you wouldn't even know when you're crossing it. In "heartland" Europe, there are often no border stations at all. Sometimes you just notice you changed countries because the street signs look slightly different. Compared to a lot of other countries, including the US, EU police are doing almost no traffic stops or other forms of public "papers, please" checks. The last time I was in a traffic stop was about 5 years ago, and I accrue about 50k kilometers a year. Compare that to a random Asian country where police are sometimes lying in wait near ambiguous signage in order to catch expensive-looking rental cars passing through, or compare that to a rural sheriff in a southern US state who likes to capture (and throw in jail for a few hours with great fanfare) people passing by in out-of-state cars when they predictably go a little above the draconian speed limit on the completely empty and straight highway. In Cairo, you can't even drive downtown from the airport without being stopped for ID at least twice. Maybe I'm missing a bit of the picture because I don't like to go by train, but overall movement in Europe seems a lot less restricted than pretty much everywhere else I've been to.
      - X4 13y ago
        I'm sorry, but you both don't understand it. The police has training in identifying persons of interest or suspicious looking people. Tourists are more routinely controlled, but I believe that black persons are more often controlled for their passports (because police suspect them of staying illegal in the country, or it's simply racism, idk). I can say that, because I travel a lot, with all types of public transportation. WIth a car you only have ID-Checks at borders, sometimes.
        13y ago
- soneil 13y ago
  Really? I find that surprising (re: Europe) - I'm quite surprised the airlines still require ID here, the borders don't. I've taken trains from Hungary to France with less ID requirements than Amtrak.
- anu_gupta 13y ago
  Canada is bigger than the US and has as at least as much freedom of movement as the US.
  - tptacek 13y ago
    That sounds like a good point. Are you familiar with the laws in Canada regarding identification? Can you be randomly stopped simply to confirm your identity in Canada?
    - parliament32 13y ago
      It depends. If you get stopped by police (while in a car or on foot), they will almost always ask for ID, but there also must be an actual reason for them to stop you. "Hello sir, the reason I stopped you today was because one of your taillights was out... You'll fix that when you get home? Great. Can I have a look at your ID and registration before I let you go?" The closest I've ever come to a "random stop" was being pulled over at 3am and asked for ID because "a car similar to yours was recently stolen in the area, I just want to make sure this is your car". When travelling by transit/train, you will never be asked for ID. When crossing provinces (aka "states" in the US), you will never be asked for ID. You will always be asked for ID when you pre-paid for something under your name (hotel, flight within Canada, etc).

jey 13y ago

Come on now, Security Theater is for your own good.

carsongross 13y ago

'Do better, TSA'? Please, God, no. Don't do better.

pmorici 13y ago

They don't hire for the "id checker" position based on intelligence.

X4 13y ago
That guy isn't stupid or less intelligent, don't underestimate people! He's just ignorant. Never ever underestimate ignorance, dear pmorici. Ignorance brought as war, death, mass murder and governments..whoops how did governments slip in here? ;)

PhantomGremlin 13y ago

In that photo Loren does look like a girl. The TSA agent was simply performing her bit role in Security Theater, I'd say that the "transaction" went pretty well. The interaction appears to have taken less than a minute. I fail to see how he "almost didn't make it through security".