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Leashes diminish those at either end of them.. there's an emerging field of research that suggests powerful people who begin to forget their subordinates can b

Leashes diminish those at either end of them.. there's an emerging field of research that suggests powerful people who begin to forget their subordinates can be coached back toward their former kindness I know one way that ought to work, and has the added benefit of being just: stripping them of their power (over others). If there is another way, I'm curious.

alexjeffrey 13y ago
that may not always be practical though - how would you go about stripping the power of the employer over the employee? without an employer's power to say, decide whether an employee gets fired or a raise, the relationship would no longer be there.
- PavlovsCat 13y ago
  Humanity threatening its own survival like it currently does is not practical either. Even going back into the ocean like the dolphins is more practical than that. And more importantly, I think there is a difference between justified authority and power. Not that I'm automatically accepting employer and employee relationships as desirable, just like with "citizen vs. politician", but for example it's perfectly okay that parents can yank their kids at the arm when those are about to run into traffic, and otherwise curtail their autonomy, as long as it's justified. That's not power, that's authority, and even authority needs to be constantly re-evaluated and justified. If you're on an expedition and the most experienced person leads it, one would expect that when they get sick, they would pass that job on without any fuss at all, since it's about the well-being of the expedition, not about their personal power, right? Notice how in many cases instead we have people asserting ownership, certainly when it comes to employers, and even in politics. When was the last time you strolled into a place and up to the manager/president, proved you're smarter in all ways, and successfully convinced them they should give you their job and work under you? Thought so :P
  - loceng 13y ago
    One way I feel we can give people more power, on the individual level and even out the playing field in employer-employee relationships, is to have the government taking care of all basic living needs - where you don't actually need to work in order to survive. For a business to succeed then, they would have to be kind and people would want to have to work for them out of other options - of which I could see that leading to many more co-operatives and the like.
    - PavlovsCat 13y ago
      I like the place you're describing! But finding a way from here to there is the tricky part, isn't it.
      - anigbrowl 13y ago
        http://flights.expedia.com/cheap-flights-to-sweden/ http://flights.expedia.com/cheap-flights-to-sweden/
        PavlovsCat 13y ago
        I'm a big fan of changing where I am, rather than going where others prepared the soil for my liking. Also, if anything: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania :P
        loceng 13y ago
        I laughed out loud. Thanks. :)
      - loceng 13y ago
        Me too! It is tricky. I've been working on this problem, and evolving my understanding of the systems influencing it for 12 years now or so. I've been designing a growing plan that I feel has a good chance of getting there or starting the path that will lead there. :) This will incorporate business plans / projects, a charity I am starting, and political aspirations - as policy will eventually need to change, and noise will need to be made to at minimum start discussion and have people raise questions about the status quo.
- _delirium 13y ago
  That's one reason skepticism for the employer-employee relationship ends up recurring in a lot of liberty-oriented philosophies. You can find it anywhere from more on the left (e.g. Emma Goldman), to more on the right (e.g. Lysander Spooner), and even in a form in Thomas Jefferson's "yeoman farmer" ideal (though he didn't follow it himself), since he thought industrial-style mass employment fit poorly with democracy. An alternative is to constrain the power, as is done in more consensus-oriented labor systems like Scandinavia's, treating the company as a kind of partnership of multiple stakeholders, and having many decisions made by committees with both employer and employee representatives. A kind of weak importing of a few ideas from worker's cooperatives, without actually moving all the way there.
- nhaehnle 13y ago
  One obvious way to do that would be to get rid of the employer-employee relationship. Flat management styles attempt to work in this direction, but really you end up with worker cooperatives when you take the thought to its logical conclusion.

alexjeffrey 13y ago

that may not always be practical though - how would you go about stripping the power of the employer over the employee? without an employer's power to say, decide whether an employee gets fired or a raise, the relationship would no longer be there.

PavlovsCat 13y ago
Humanity threatening its own survival like it currently does is not practical either. Even going back into the ocean like the dolphins is more practical than that. And more importantly, I think there is a difference between justified authority and power. Not that I'm automatically accepting employer and employee relationships as desirable, just like with "citizen vs. politician", but for example it's perfectly okay that parents can yank their kids at the arm when those are about to run into traffic, and otherwise curtail their autonomy, as long as it's justified. That's not power, that's authority, and even authority needs to be constantly re-evaluated and justified. If you're on an expedition and the most experienced person leads it, one would expect that when they get sick, they would pass that job on without any fuss at all, since it's about the well-being of the expedition, not about their personal power, right? Notice how in many cases instead we have people asserting ownership, certainly when it comes to employers, and even in politics. When was the last time you strolled into a place and up to the manager/president, proved you're smarter in all ways, and successfully convinced them they should give you their job and work under you? Thought so :P
- loceng 13y ago
  One way I feel we can give people more power, on the individual level and even out the playing field in employer-employee relationships, is to have the government taking care of all basic living needs - where you don't actually need to work in order to survive. For a business to succeed then, they would have to be kind and people would want to have to work for them out of other options - of which I could see that leading to many more co-operatives and the like.
  - PavlovsCat 13y ago
    I like the place you're describing! But finding a way from here to there is the tricky part, isn't it.
    - anigbrowl 13y ago
      http://flights.expedia.com/cheap-flights-to-sweden/ http://flights.expedia.com/cheap-flights-to-sweden/
      - PavlovsCat 13y ago
        I'm a big fan of changing where I am, rather than going where others prepared the soil for my liking. Also, if anything: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania :P
      - loceng 13y ago
        I laughed out loud. Thanks. :)
    - loceng 13y ago
      Me too! It is tricky. I've been working on this problem, and evolving my understanding of the systems influencing it for 12 years now or so. I've been designing a growing plan that I feel has a good chance of getting there or starting the path that will lead there. :) This will incorporate business plans / projects, a charity I am starting, and political aspirations - as policy will eventually need to change, and noise will need to be made to at minimum start discussion and have people raise questions about the status quo.
_delirium 13y ago
That's one reason skepticism for the employer-employee relationship ends up recurring in a lot of liberty-oriented philosophies. You can find it anywhere from more on the left (e.g. Emma Goldman), to more on the right (e.g. Lysander Spooner), and even in a form in Thomas Jefferson's "yeoman farmer" ideal (though he didn't follow it himself), since he thought industrial-style mass employment fit poorly with democracy. An alternative is to constrain the power, as is done in more consensus-oriented labor systems like Scandinavia's, treating the company as a kind of partnership of multiple stakeholders, and having many decisions made by committees with both employer and employee representatives. A kind of weak importing of a few ideas from worker's cooperatives, without actually moving all the way there.
nhaehnle 13y ago
One obvious way to do that would be to get rid of the employer-employee relationship. Flat management styles attempt to work in this direction, but really you end up with worker cooperatives when you take the thought to its logical conclusion.