5 ms·

One the companies closed and deleted all their paying customers emails? That's bad imo.

phpnode 13y ago
better to delete it than hand it over if privacy was your selling point in the first place. if i were a customer, i'd be ok with this.
- iaskwhy 13y ago
  Also, if I understand this correctly, his customers most probably had a copy of the emails on their computers so their loss was only the email address (and emails eventually received after the closedown).
  - digipaper 13y ago
    If that's the case it would be fine with me too.
  - orblivion 13y ago
    They might have lost roughly a day's worth, depends how often they connect via IMAP.
    - pdonis 13y ago
      What if they're not using IMAP?
  - pdonis 13y ago
    his customers most probably had a copy of the emails on their computers Based on the fact that a number of them are talking about having lost data, I suspect that at least a significant number of customers only used webmail to access their accounts, so they never had a local copy of their data.
    - iaskwhy 13y ago
      I was thinking that using webmail would defeat the purpose of really private email.
      - pdonis 13y ago
        Not if you access it via https.
        iaskwhy 13y ago
        It's still showing not encrypted on the screen which allows all sort of possibilities when done on a browser. For example, let's say you're using Chrome, hard to make sure page contents are not being used somehow.
        pdonis 13y ago
        The same applies to any other email client; it has your data unencrypted, so if you can't trust it, you're screwed.
        iaskwhy 13y ago
        That's why I assumed people that actually care about privacy use a desktop software, open source and with IMAP, so there wouldn't be no huge loss.
        pdonis 13y ago
        a desktop software, open source and with IMAP Which will still see your data unencrypted. And there are open-source browsers too. In any case, as I said several posts ago, a number of Lavabit customers were complaining about having lost their stored emails; if they were using a desktop email client with IMAP, that wouldn't be the case.
- zwdr 13y ago
  I am a customer, and honestly, I'm more than okay with it. It's a real annoyance to me, but its better than having my stuff streamed to the NSA.
cyphax 13y ago
It's a secure e-mail service. If you had some sensitive data and thus used a secure e-mail service, wouldn't you prefer your sensitive data to be destroyed or fall in the hands of the government in the country where their servers are? Good chance he had some clients who'd rather see that data destroyed. I hope he advised all users to backup regularly, though. :)
- betterunix 13y ago
  If you are willing to leave your security in the hands of some third party like that -- and do not think for a moment that you are doing anything else when you use Lavabit/Hushmail/etc. -- it is probably because you do not want your email to vanish like that (and security comes second to convenience for you). Think of the alternatives: * Keeping your secret keys on your disc. Now you crash it, format it, etc. and lose all access. * Smartcards -- better not lose it! The reason people use Lavabit is that they want to maintain access regardless of the system they connect from. Of course that also means that other people can gain access (your security is now reduced to the strength of your passphrase, a classic bad strategy), but Lavabit users do not really care. Hushmail and Lavabit both had headline-making stories about how they handed plaintexts over to the government and did not lose their customer base over it.
kintamanimatt 13y ago
From what I've read I'm under the impression that his paying customers have their mailboxes encrypted. The mailboxes themselves probably aren't deleted, but login has been disabled to protect his customers. There's a point where the password is in an unencrypted state on the web server, and he's probably been ordered to stream these unencrypted passwords off NSA HQ. By shutting down, LL is protecting against passwords being compromised.
Mithrandir 13y ago
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57597954-83/lavabit-chief-predicts-long-fight-with-feds-q-a/ http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57597954-83/lavabit-chief-p... "What happens to your customer's e-mails and data? Levison: I'm looking into setting up a site where users can download their data and set up a forwarding [e-mail] address, but that may take a week or two to set up. That's all I can do until I feel confident that I can resume the service without having to compromise its integrity. I will make it clear that I don't plan to use any encryption for that site. [People] should only use it if they feel comfortable with the information being intercepted. And yes, I do plan to have that disclaimer on the site. Unfortunately, what's become clear is that there's no protections in our current body of law to keep the government from compelling us to provide the information necessary to decrypt those communications in secret. I'm still looking at seeing if that's even logistically feasible -- there's half a billion messages [sent in the 10 years Lavabit operated]. By shutting down the service, I will be losing the infrastructure that I used to support all those people. There's stuff that I can't share with my own lawyer. This is going to be a long fight."
- llamataboot 13y ago
  > "There's stuff that I can't share with my own lawyer. This is going to be a long fight." Wow. I didn't know you could be gagged from talking to a lawyer.

better to delete it than hand it over if privacy was your selling point in the first place. if i were a customer, i'd be ok with this.

iaskwhy 13y ago
Also, if I understand this correctly, his customers most probably had a copy of the emails on their computers so their loss was only the email address (and emails eventually received after the closedown).
- digipaper 13y ago
  If that's the case it would be fine with me too.
- orblivion 13y ago
  They might have lost roughly a day's worth, depends how often they connect via IMAP.
  - pdonis 13y ago
    What if they're not using IMAP?
- pdonis 13y ago
  his customers most probably had a copy of the emails on their computers Based on the fact that a number of them are talking about having lost data, I suspect that at least a significant number of customers only used webmail to access their accounts, so they never had a local copy of their data.
  - iaskwhy 13y ago
    I was thinking that using webmail would defeat the purpose of really private email.
    - pdonis 13y ago
      Not if you access it via https.
      - iaskwhy 13y ago
        It's still showing not encrypted on the screen which allows all sort of possibilities when done on a browser. For example, let's say you're using Chrome, hard to make sure page contents are not being used somehow.
        pdonis 13y ago
        The same applies to any other email client; it has your data unencrypted, so if you can't trust it, you're screwed.
        iaskwhy 13y ago
        That's why I assumed people that actually care about privacy use a desktop software, open source and with IMAP, so there wouldn't be no huge loss.
        pdonis 13y ago
        a desktop software, open source and with IMAP Which will still see your data unencrypted. And there are open-source browsers too. In any case, as I said several posts ago, a number of Lavabit customers were complaining about having lost their stored emails; if they were using a desktop email client with IMAP, that wouldn't be the case.
zwdr 13y ago
I am a customer, and honestly, I'm more than okay with it. It's a real annoyance to me, but its better than having my stuff streamed to the NSA.

cyphax 13y ago

It's a secure e-mail service. If you had some sensitive data and thus used a secure e-mail service, wouldn't you prefer your sensitive data to be destroyed or fall in the hands of the government in the country where their servers are? Good chance he had some clients who'd rather see that data destroyed. I hope he advised all users to backup regularly, though. :)

betterunix 13y ago
If you are willing to leave your security in the hands of some third party like that -- and do not think for a moment that you are doing anything else when you use Lavabit/Hushmail/etc. -- it is probably because you do not want your email to vanish like that (and security comes second to convenience for you). Think of the alternatives: * Keeping your secret keys on your disc. Now you crash it, format it, etc. and lose all access. * Smartcards -- better not lose it! The reason people use Lavabit is that they want to maintain access regardless of the system they connect from. Of course that also means that other people can gain access (your security is now reduced to the strength of your passphrase, a classic bad strategy), but Lavabit users do not really care. Hushmail and Lavabit both had headline-making stories about how they handed plaintexts over to the government and did not lose their customer base over it.

kintamanimatt 13y ago

From what I've read I'm under the impression that his paying customers have their mailboxes encrypted. The mailboxes themselves probably aren't deleted, but login has been disabled to protect his customers. There's a point where the password is in an unencrypted state on the web server, and he's probably been ordered to stream these unencrypted passwords off NSA HQ. By shutting down, LL is protecting against passwords being compromised.

Mithrandir 13y ago

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57597954-83/lavabit-chief-predicts-long-fight-with-feds-q-a/ http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57597954-83/lavabit-chief-p... "What happens to your customer's e-mails and data? Levison: I'm looking into setting up a site where users can download their data and set up a forwarding [e-mail] address, but that may take a week or two to set up. That's all I can do until I feel confident that I can resume the service without having to compromise its integrity. I will make it clear that I don't plan to use any encryption for that site. [People] should only use it if they feel comfortable with the information being intercepted. And yes, I do plan to have that disclaimer on the site. Unfortunately, what's become clear is that there's no protections in our current body of law to keep the government from compelling us to provide the information necessary to decrypt those communications in secret. I'm still looking at seeing if that's even logistically feasible -- there's half a billion messages [sent in the 10 years Lavabit operated]. By shutting down the service, I will be losing the infrastructure that I used to support all those people. There's stuff that I can't share with my own lawyer. This is going to be a long fight."

llamataboot 13y ago
> "There's stuff that I can't share with my own lawyer. This is going to be a long fight." Wow. I didn't know you could be gagged from talking to a lawyer.