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IntelliJ + LaClojure isn't great. I'd recommend Emacs + nRepl or Eclipse + CounterClockWise instead. I realize IntelliJ is better typically but in this case i

IntelliJ + LaClojure isn't great. I'd recommend Emacs + nRepl or Eclipse + CounterClockWise instead. I realize IntelliJ is better typically but in this case it's not.

hhariri 13y ago
What are the issues you've found with IntelliJ? Have you reported them? We'd love to know how we can improve it. Please feel free to ping me (hadi at jetbrains)
- hansg 13y ago
  > What are the issues you've found with IntelliJ? > Have you reported them? Most issues are in your tracker since ages. > We'd love to know how we can improve it. merge the lein plug-in into laClojure, or keep it synced all the time. And implement those requests there in your tracker.
  - reeses 13y ago
    The gradle/groovy integration is of only slightly better harmony. It's very obviously a plugin and the lack of analysis makes for an awkward dynamic programming experience. For example, I dislike the yellow warning lines that abound when it can't infer a type that has previously been assigned on all call paths.
- rickjames28 13y ago
  Does LaClojure have a blog or some kind of "news" page where we can find out what the latest developments have been? All I've found is the github page.
  - hhariri 13y ago
    Currently, apart from the GitHub pages, there isn't anything.
- coolsunglasses 13y ago
  I'd like an actual Lisper to work on LaClojure. Also, I'd like anybody to work on LaClojure. This is a desolate wasteland and it's very obvious nobody cares enough to make it work well. https://github.com/JetBrains/la-clojure/issues https://github.com/JetBrains/la-clojure/issues There are issues from TWO years ago with no comments, no explanation, and no fix. Why would I use your product if I can't trust you to fix anything? With Emacs and nRepl or Slime/Swank I can fix things myself if I need to. Although in practice I don't need to.
  - hhariri 13y ago
    But the plugin is OSS and on GitHub. Or are the issues in relation to the IDE itself? (which btw the community edition is also OSS and on GitHub)
    - coolsunglasses 13y ago
      Nobody cares about which part you're responsible for, they care about how nice the tools are. Saying it's OSS and not your problem is weak and looks bad. Especially given it's on your GitHub organization! If you want people to use IntelliJ, you have to step up to the plate and contribute to stuff outside of the core IDE. If things like LaClojure are garbage, it makes you look bad and people will start using other tools. Java programmers that learn Clojure are, (in my experience), leaving their Java IDEs of choice because the support is poor for their new favorite language. They're coming home to Emacs or experimenting with LightTable. That makes it your problem. Nobody cares about excuses. Let me be clear, I don't care if you fail, I'm an Emacs user and believe in programmers maintaining their tools for themselves out of deep mistrust for commercial entities owning how programmers do their work. But if you want to be competitive you have to stop being myopic. Have you been paying attention? Companies like http://zeroturnaround.com/ http://zeroturnaround.com/ make their product free for Scala users because those people are the vanguard for their respective communities and will often be the ones making product decisions. There is a comparable thing going on with YourKit's wonderful support of the Clojure community. How exactly are you staying on top of the latest developments in JVM languages if you're concerned exclusively with "IntelliJ-the-IDE-itself"?
sultezdukes 13y ago
And for developers not used to Emacs, Eclipse and Counterclockwise is the preferred development environment. Even Emacs pros might find it easier to just start out with counterclockwise at first.
dktbs 13y ago
Since the article is targeted at those wanting to get started with clojure, I recommend that newcomers avoid trying to learn a new editor and a new language at the same time. There are clojure plugins for many popular editors these days. If you already have an editor/IDE you like, I'd recommend starting there and moving to something else in the future once you get used to it.
- reeses 13y ago
  I'd say that this is usually the case for many languages, but Lisp IDEs have been refined, unrefined, GMOd, and subjected to all kinds of prodding that you generally want to pick one of the approved environments (Emacs, LispWorks Emacsish, Allegro I-wanna-be-Genera-Emacs). The main reason for this is that so many of the tutorials will assume emacs for your repl management beyond the basic "(car '(foo bar baz))" and any emacs will have a well-defined "manage the indentation and parens"-mode. Getting help from other people will often involve Emacs-specific instructions as well. "C-c C-e at the end of the sexpr and eval the result..." which may or may not be the binding in Eclipse or whatever IDE the person is using.
TheLegace 13y ago
I'm still deciding whether emacs is worth all the time and learning. I've seen people use it and it looks wickedly intricate. I was going get into tmux when I saw the HN post. I'm only using sublime, but I know that's for script kiddies ;).

IntelliJ + LaClojure isn't great. I'd recommend Emacs + nRepl or Eclipse + CounterClockWise instead. I realize IntelliJ is better typically but in this case it's not.

hhariri 13y ago

What are the issues you've found with IntelliJ? Have you reported them? We'd love to know how we can improve it. Please feel free to ping me (hadi at jetbrains)

hansg 13y ago
> What are the issues you've found with IntelliJ? > Have you reported them? Most issues are in your tracker since ages. > We'd love to know how we can improve it. merge the lein plug-in into laClojure, or keep it synced all the time. And implement those requests there in your tracker.
- reeses 13y ago
  The gradle/groovy integration is of only slightly better harmony. It's very obviously a plugin and the lack of analysis makes for an awkward dynamic programming experience. For example, I dislike the yellow warning lines that abound when it can't infer a type that has previously been assigned on all call paths.
rickjames28 13y ago
Does LaClojure have a blog or some kind of "news" page where we can find out what the latest developments have been? All I've found is the github page.
- hhariri 13y ago
  Currently, apart from the GitHub pages, there isn't anything.
coolsunglasses 13y ago
I'd like an actual Lisper to work on LaClojure. Also, I'd like anybody to work on LaClojure. This is a desolate wasteland and it's very obvious nobody cares enough to make it work well. https://github.com/JetBrains/la-clojure/issues https://github.com/JetBrains/la-clojure/issues There are issues from TWO years ago with no comments, no explanation, and no fix. Why would I use your product if I can't trust you to fix anything? With Emacs and nRepl or Slime/Swank I can fix things myself if I need to. Although in practice I don't need to.
- hhariri 13y ago
  But the plugin is OSS and on GitHub. Or are the issues in relation to the IDE itself? (which btw the community edition is also OSS and on GitHub)
  - coolsunglasses 13y ago
    Nobody cares about which part you're responsible for, they care about how nice the tools are. Saying it's OSS and not your problem is weak and looks bad. Especially given it's on your GitHub organization! If you want people to use IntelliJ, you have to step up to the plate and contribute to stuff outside of the core IDE. If things like LaClojure are garbage, it makes you look bad and people will start using other tools. Java programmers that learn Clojure are, (in my experience), leaving their Java IDEs of choice because the support is poor for their new favorite language. They're coming home to Emacs or experimenting with LightTable. That makes it your problem. Nobody cares about excuses. Let me be clear, I don't care if you fail, I'm an Emacs user and believe in programmers maintaining their tools for themselves out of deep mistrust for commercial entities owning how programmers do their work. But if you want to be competitive you have to stop being myopic. Have you been paying attention? Companies like http://zeroturnaround.com/ http://zeroturnaround.com/ make their product free for Scala users because those people are the vanguard for their respective communities and will often be the ones making product decisions. There is a comparable thing going on with YourKit's wonderful support of the Clojure community. How exactly are you staying on top of the latest developments in JVM languages if you're concerned exclusively with "IntelliJ-the-IDE-itself"?

sultezdukes 13y ago

And for developers not used to Emacs, Eclipse and Counterclockwise is the preferred development environment. Even Emacs pros might find it easier to just start out with counterclockwise at first.

dktbs 13y ago

Since the article is targeted at those wanting to get started with clojure, I recommend that newcomers avoid trying to learn a new editor and a new language at the same time. There are clojure plugins for many popular editors these days. If you already have an editor/IDE you like, I'd recommend starting there and moving to something else in the future once you get used to it.

reeses 13y ago
I'd say that this is usually the case for many languages, but Lisp IDEs have been refined, unrefined, GMOd, and subjected to all kinds of prodding that you generally want to pick one of the approved environments (Emacs, LispWorks Emacsish, Allegro I-wanna-be-Genera-Emacs). The main reason for this is that so many of the tutorials will assume emacs for your repl management beyond the basic "(car '(foo bar baz))" and any emacs will have a well-defined "manage the indentation and parens"-mode. Getting help from other people will often involve Emacs-specific instructions as well. "C-c C-e at the end of the sexpr and eval the result..." which may or may not be the binding in Eclipse or whatever IDE the person is using.

TheLegace 13y ago

I'm still deciding whether emacs is worth all the time and learning. I've seen people use it and it looks wickedly intricate. I was going get into tmux when I saw the HN post. I'm only using sublime, but I know that's for script kiddies ;).