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I found that the author came across as extraordinarily condescending with the whole "let's get the president on the phone" thing. I'm sure that the woman he was

I found that the author came across as extraordinarily condescending with the whole "let's get the president on the phone" thing. I'm sure that the woman he was dealing with understood full well that the "Internet" itself was probably fine and that it was her configuration that was the problem. Though I guess he took the holier-than-thou approach because she didn't use the precise terminology that he would have preferred, heaven forbid, which warranted him degrading in her a blog post. Amusingly enough, I work in a web shop and I wouldn't think twice about asking a colleague, "Is the internet down?" and he would understand full well that I was referring to some issue between our office machines and our ISP.

rhizome 13y ago
Nick Burns: http://vimeo.com/24762526 http://vimeo.com/24762526
- Hansi 13y ago
  This is exactly what I thought of when reading that post.
angersock 13y ago
The author wasn't even an IT bro--he was a stand-in whose real job was teaching. This all said, would you expect that a doctor would have patience with somebody who insisted "My body hurts" without being willing to provide more detail? Terminology matters, and those who think it does not are doomed to be taken advantage of by people with more nuanced ways of reasoning about the world.
- maxbrown 13y ago
  I can't think of any doctors I know who would respond to "My body hurts" with disdain, rather than "Can you tell me where, and what type of pain?". If you genuinely wanted to help someone, would the terminology really get in the way?
  - angersock 13y ago
    Right, but usually what ends up happening is that the user ends up repeating (in increasing frustration) that the computer is broken/the internet is down. Eventually, IT people learn to ignore user feedback because they don't know what they're doing--which increases speed of resolution but ultimately is a bad idea. Consider how doctors react to patients that willfully refuse to give useful feedback--talk to any paramedic, for example. In fact, IT workers are very much like paramedics: they sit around all day being bored except for bouts of panic brought on usually by failure to take preventative measures.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - vehementi 13y ago
    Luckily he didn't actually respond with disdain. I know many doctors who would have mental flashes of disdain, or perhaps, later vent on the idiocy of her clients.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  I think the amount of snark that doctors get away with is pretty illustrative of the low social standing that people in technology have. If you told a doctor "my body hurts" and refused to clarify, you would almost certainly get some sort of snark. Nobody thinks poorly of doctors because of this though, while people in technology are caricatured endlessly in popular media for it. The most you see that being done for doctors in media is probably House who is a complete asshole junky with vague personality disorders... but he's right dammit! The popular depictions of people in technology almost without fail leave of the "but he's right" and instead go with "his dweebish mind missed the obvious: we just had to [shoot|kick|shove] the computer."
  - ceol 13y ago
    > If you told a doctor "my body hurts" and refused to clarify, you would almost certainly get some sort of snark. Actually, no. Very few people tell doctors, "My body hurts!" It's more like... "My leg hurts," or, "My back hurts," etc. Which is just as unhelpful, but doctors never pull out their cellphone and call an imaginary President or give them any snark like that; you would lose a crazy amount of patients. What doctors do is ask, "How does it hurt? When does it hurt? Is it constant? When did it start hurting?" When I ask someone, "When did this computer problem start happening?" they almost always give more information. I've never had someone refuse to clarify; sometimes, they just don't know.
- brandon272 13y ago
  I don't think comparing it to someone saying "my body hurts" is a good analogy. I think that it would be more appropriate to say that in the case, she knew her body hurt (computer). She knew what part of the body hurt (web browser, PowerPoint). She just didn't know how to identify the problem. In this case, it would be comparable to your doctor asking you if it were your C3 or C4 vertebrae that was sore and you saying, "I don't know where that is." .. People with a good understanding of human anatomy know the answer; your average layperson probably does not.
  - angersock 13y ago
    Usually it's more like the old joke: Guy walks into doctor's office, says his body hurts. Doc asks where it hurts, guy taps his forehead and says that that hurts. Doc asks if anywhere else hurts, guy taps knee and says that too hurts. Doc asks if there are any other symptoms, guy pokes at this other arm, says that that hurts. Doc diagnoses guy with broken finger.
- PhasmaFelis 13y ago
  If I said to a doctor "my chest hurts," I would expect them to say "Your entire chest, or just one point? Is a stabbing pain or more of an ache? Can you rate it on a scale of 1 to 10? Does it hurt more when I press on it?" and so on an so forth. In my experience, users are pretty good at answering those sorts of questions if you're willing to be patient and zero in. I would not expect a doctor to say "Oh, your chest hurts, that's real helpful, buddy. What am I supposed to do with that? I need details!" Because that would make them an asshole.
deleted 13y ago
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rhizome 13y ago

Nick Burns: http://vimeo.com/24762526 http://vimeo.com/24762526

Hansi 13y ago
This is exactly what I thought of when reading that post.

angersock 13y ago

The author wasn't even an IT bro--he was a stand-in whose real job was teaching. This all said, would you expect that a doctor would have patience with somebody who insisted "My body hurts" without being willing to provide more detail? Terminology matters, and those who think it does not are doomed to be taken advantage of by people with more nuanced ways of reasoning about the world.

maxbrown 13y ago
I can't think of any doctors I know who would respond to "My body hurts" with disdain, rather than "Can you tell me where, and what type of pain?". If you genuinely wanted to help someone, would the terminology really get in the way?
- angersock 13y ago
  Right, but usually what ends up happening is that the user ends up repeating (in increasing frustration) that the computer is broken/the internet is down. Eventually, IT people learn to ignore user feedback because they don't know what they're doing--which increases speed of resolution but ultimately is a bad idea. Consider how doctors react to patients that willfully refuse to give useful feedback--talk to any paramedic, for example. In fact, IT workers are very much like paramedics: they sit around all day being bored except for bouts of panic brought on usually by failure to take preventative measures.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- vehementi 13y ago
  Luckily he didn't actually respond with disdain. I know many doctors who would have mental flashes of disdain, or perhaps, later vent on the idiocy of her clients.
jlgreco 13y ago
I think the amount of snark that doctors get away with is pretty illustrative of the low social standing that people in technology have. If you told a doctor "my body hurts" and refused to clarify, you would almost certainly get some sort of snark. Nobody thinks poorly of doctors because of this though, while people in technology are caricatured endlessly in popular media for it. The most you see that being done for doctors in media is probably House who is a complete asshole junky with vague personality disorders... but he's right dammit! The popular depictions of people in technology almost without fail leave of the "but he's right" and instead go with "his dweebish mind missed the obvious: we just had to [shoot|kick|shove] the computer."
- ceol 13y ago
  > If you told a doctor "my body hurts" and refused to clarify, you would almost certainly get some sort of snark. Actually, no. Very few people tell doctors, "My body hurts!" It's more like... "My leg hurts," or, "My back hurts," etc. Which is just as unhelpful, but doctors never pull out their cellphone and call an imaginary President or give them any snark like that; you would lose a crazy amount of patients. What doctors do is ask, "How does it hurt? When does it hurt? Is it constant? When did it start hurting?" When I ask someone, "When did this computer problem start happening?" they almost always give more information. I've never had someone refuse to clarify; sometimes, they just don't know.
brandon272 13y ago
I don't think comparing it to someone saying "my body hurts" is a good analogy. I think that it would be more appropriate to say that in the case, she knew her body hurt (computer). She knew what part of the body hurt (web browser, PowerPoint). She just didn't know how to identify the problem. In this case, it would be comparable to your doctor asking you if it were your C3 or C4 vertebrae that was sore and you saying, "I don't know where that is." .. People with a good understanding of human anatomy know the answer; your average layperson probably does not.
- angersock 13y ago
  Usually it's more like the old joke: Guy walks into doctor's office, says his body hurts. Doc asks where it hurts, guy taps his forehead and says that that hurts. Doc asks if anywhere else hurts, guy taps knee and says that too hurts. Doc asks if there are any other symptoms, guy pokes at this other arm, says that that hurts. Doc diagnoses guy with broken finger.
PhasmaFelis 13y ago
If I said to a doctor "my chest hurts," I would expect them to say "Your entire chest, or just one point? Is a stabbing pain or more of an ache? Can you rate it on a scale of 1 to 10? Does it hurt more when I press on it?" and so on an so forth. In my experience, users are pretty good at answering those sorts of questions if you're willing to be patient and zero in. I would not expect a doctor to say "Oh, your chest hurts, that's real helpful, buddy. What am I supposed to do with that? I need details!" Because that would make them an asshole.

deleted 13y ago

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