6 ms·

To extend your car analogy, I wonder if the author knows how to fix his own car? I certainly don't. I know it involves pistons and carburetors and...tubes.

by ender7 13y ago

blakestein 13y ago
The difference I see here is I don't think there's some sort of prevailing idea that young people all know how to fix their cars, like there is that they know how to use a computer.
- notahacker 13y ago
  I see it as the opposite: there's no prevailing idea amongst mechanics that inexperienced drivers who rely on assistance to diagnose and fix simple engine faults are incapable of using the road
- anfedorov 13y ago
  Knowing how to use a computer is a lot more integral to living in modern society than knowing how to use/debug a car, though. Especially in areas with good public transit, one can live life without knowing how to drive, much less fix a car. Computers, on the other hand, are quickly becoming our best windows into the world at large. Knowing the technical difference between China's great firewall, the NSA's snooping, and the the UK's proposed porn filter is vital for people making decisions about them, as well as educated voters.
- drcube 13y ago
  I don't know about you, but in the lower class area where I grew up, every teenage boy was expected to know about engines and pistons and cam-shafts and gaskets and whatnot. Not that they did, mind you. It was enough to know a few makes and models so you could say "Gee look at that bad ass Thunderbird with a hemi!" when something cool drove by. That, and everyone had to pick a side in the Ford/Chevy debate, with a few parroted opinions to back up your choice. Actual mechanical ability was something most people just pretended to have. To be honest, it's not that different than with computers these days.
Morphling 13y ago
I can't say that I can pop the hood of my car and instantly know what's wrong, but I can change oil, tiers, lamps and battery and add necessary liquids. I don't know if that's a lot, but I like to think I know something about cars.
- WalterBright 13y ago
  Actually, if you keep the fluids changed and topped up, your car will likely not break. What kills most cars is simple neglect.
  - jaynos 13y ago
    Or being build in America in the late '80s or early '90s, but that's how I learned to fix most things on a car.
fsckin 13y ago
If you read the article, you would know the answer. "A hundred years ago, if you were lucky enough to own a car then you probably knew how to fix it. People could at least change the oil, change the tyres, or even give the engine a tune-up. I’ve owned a car for most of my adult life and they’re a mystery to me."
- wonderyak 13y ago
  And thats where it falls apart. If he were more honest with himself he'd say something like 'I know I can go online or pick up a manual and figure anything about my car that I'd want to.' Letting it remain a mystery is just perpetuating the ignorance people seem to cling to like a life raft. Figuring things out is fun and you learn new skills.
  - jamesaguilar 13y ago
    There are an almost unlimited number of things to figure out in modern life. IMO, it's not reasonable to judge someone for selecting which ones are most important to them. The important thing is to know it is possible if you had to -- it's just persistence. That said, if you wanted to pick one thing, computers probably have the lowest cost-to-benefit ratio of figuring stuff out, at least at the proxy-settings level of detail. I know how to change the oil in my car, but I can't do it much cheaper than the nine minute lube down the street, and it takes me four times as long.
    - BruceIV 13y ago
      Same - I'm not super car-literate, but I was able to refill wiper fluid before I went on a long trip, and if it came down to it I could change the tire (I at least know where the jack is, and roughly where it goes under the car). But I don't change my own oil, because I can't really do it cheaper than the shop.
- bluedino 13y ago
  >> I’ve owned a car for most of my adult life and they’re a mystery to me. Right. But you bought a car to drive places, not because you like taking them apart or 'programming' them. You probably bought a computer for the latter.
thedufer 13y ago
This analogy is pretty spot on. I don't know how to get rid of viruses, etc. But when people ask me to, I know how to google the problem. My experience with cars is basically identical - I didn't know how to change the brakes on my car, but I knew how to look up instructions and follow them. So much of "computer literacy" these days is typing things into google and following instructions. The fact that that is beyond so many people is frightening, honestly.
- skybrian 13y ago
  I can follow instructions too but I wouldn't change the brakes on a car without supervision from someone who knows what they're doing. That's a safety-critical repair.
  - drbawb 13y ago
    More or less this is the point of my reply -- cars are crossing into a threshold where life or death quite seriously hangs in the balance on some repairs. It's not just the failure of the system itself I'm worried about though, the _process of making certain repairs_ could kill you in many fields, not just automobile repair. Working on high-current electrical systems is dangerous, working with sprung weight can be dangerous, working with flammable vapors can be dangerous. Automobiles are one of the few examples, though, where you're _surrounded_ by many of these dangerous sub-systems while attempting a repair on something that's otherwise fairly harmless [brakes, changing a tire, checking fuel pressure, replacing a battery]. The interactions between such subsystems is where the danger lies -- and without the domain knowledge of an auto mechanic, you could easily be left unaware of the dangerous interactions between these subsystems.
- drbawb 13y ago
  I would argue there's more to literacy than blindly following instructions. In regards to computers, sure, it isn't difficult to follow some instructions. The worst that could happen? Maybe you mistype a flag and end up recursively deleting a directory. However at least most "damage" done on a computer rarely crosses into the physical realm -- anything lost or damaged can often be repaired or restored inside of a few minutes. So, sure, much of "computer literacy" is simply following instructions that will _usually_ work -- but there's not much hanging in the balance if you mess up. Working on cars though? I would urge strong caution against simply following instructions. Even a fairly "simple" procedure such as jumping your car's dead battery can end in _serious injury or death._ Many people don't realize that their $70 car battery, such an innocuous looking box, can provide in excess of several hundred amps when the current is demanded. Shorting a battery is a quick way to create such a demand. Such a short could result in burns, electrocution, explosions [discharging lead acid batteries give off hydrogen gas], and could even result in a bit of rather annoying spot-welding. Working on certain suspension components can easily create enough force to maim or dismember innocent bystanders. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY56ib3I-ew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY56ib3I-ew) (Ditto goes for working on any system with significant amounts of sprung weight -- such as garage doors, another common DIY maintenance item...) Working on your exhaust often requires knowledge of your vehicle's fueling and vapor recovery system. Lest you start welding while there are flammable vapors near the rear of the vehicle. "Knowing that you don't know everything" is often a mark of a wise individual. A tutorial may omit some crucial bit of domain knowledge that is commonly taught in the field, but not common knowledge for the average individual. I certainly agree that people should endeavor to broaden their knowledge and skills using the Internet; but Google is certainly not a substitute for an expert's knowledge, experience, and guidance. Without true literacy, in any field, you may quickly end up doing more harm than good.

To extend your car analogy, I wonder if the author knows how to fix his own car? I certainly don't. I know it involves pistons and carburetors and...tubes.

by ender7 13y ago

To extend your car analogy, I wonder if the author knows how to fix his own car? I certainly don't. I know it involves pistons and carburetors and...tubes.

blakestein 13y ago

The difference I see here is I don't think there's some sort of prevailing idea that young people all know how to fix their cars, like there is that they know how to use a computer.

notahacker 13y ago
I see it as the opposite: there's no prevailing idea amongst mechanics that inexperienced drivers who rely on assistance to diagnose and fix simple engine faults are incapable of using the road
anfedorov 13y ago
Knowing how to use a computer is a lot more integral to living in modern society than knowing how to use/debug a car, though. Especially in areas with good public transit, one can live life without knowing how to drive, much less fix a car. Computers, on the other hand, are quickly becoming our best windows into the world at large. Knowing the technical difference between China's great firewall, the NSA's snooping, and the the UK's proposed porn filter is vital for people making decisions about them, as well as educated voters.
drcube 13y ago
I don't know about you, but in the lower class area where I grew up, every teenage boy was expected to know about engines and pistons and cam-shafts and gaskets and whatnot. Not that they did, mind you. It was enough to know a few makes and models so you could say "Gee look at that bad ass Thunderbird with a hemi!" when something cool drove by. That, and everyone had to pick a side in the Ford/Chevy debate, with a few parroted opinions to back up your choice. Actual mechanical ability was something most people just pretended to have. To be honest, it's not that different than with computers these days.

Morphling 13y ago

I can't say that I can pop the hood of my car and instantly know what's wrong, but I can change oil, tiers, lamps and battery and add necessary liquids. I don't know if that's a lot, but I like to think I know something about cars.

WalterBright 13y ago
Actually, if you keep the fluids changed and topped up, your car will likely not break. What kills most cars is simple neglect.
- jaynos 13y ago
  Or being build in America in the late '80s or early '90s, but that's how I learned to fix most things on a car.

fsckin 13y ago

If you read the article, you would know the answer. "A hundred years ago, if you were lucky enough to own a car then you probably knew how to fix it. People could at least change the oil, change the tyres, or even give the engine a tune-up. I’ve owned a car for most of my adult life and they’re a mystery to me."

wonderyak 13y ago
And thats where it falls apart. If he were more honest with himself he'd say something like 'I know I can go online or pick up a manual and figure anything about my car that I'd want to.' Letting it remain a mystery is just perpetuating the ignorance people seem to cling to like a life raft. Figuring things out is fun and you learn new skills.
- jamesaguilar 13y ago
  There are an almost unlimited number of things to figure out in modern life. IMO, it's not reasonable to judge someone for selecting which ones are most important to them. The important thing is to know it is possible if you had to -- it's just persistence. That said, if you wanted to pick one thing, computers probably have the lowest cost-to-benefit ratio of figuring stuff out, at least at the proxy-settings level of detail. I know how to change the oil in my car, but I can't do it much cheaper than the nine minute lube down the street, and it takes me four times as long.
  - BruceIV 13y ago
    Same - I'm not super car-literate, but I was able to refill wiper fluid before I went on a long trip, and if it came down to it I could change the tire (I at least know where the jack is, and roughly where it goes under the car). But I don't change my own oil, because I can't really do it cheaper than the shop.
bluedino 13y ago
>> I’ve owned a car for most of my adult life and they’re a mystery to me. Right. But you bought a car to drive places, not because you like taking them apart or 'programming' them. You probably bought a computer for the latter.

thedufer 13y ago

This analogy is pretty spot on. I don't know how to get rid of viruses, etc. But when people ask me to, I know how to google the problem. My experience with cars is basically identical - I didn't know how to change the brakes on my car, but I knew how to look up instructions and follow them. So much of "computer literacy" these days is typing things into google and following instructions. The fact that that is beyond so many people is frightening, honestly.

skybrian 13y ago
I can follow instructions too but I wouldn't change the brakes on a car without supervision from someone who knows what they're doing. That's a safety-critical repair.
- drbawb 13y ago
  More or less this is the point of my reply -- cars are crossing into a threshold where life or death quite seriously hangs in the balance on some repairs. It's not just the failure of the system itself I'm worried about though, the _process of making certain repairs_ could kill you in many fields, not just automobile repair. Working on high-current electrical systems is dangerous, working with sprung weight can be dangerous, working with flammable vapors can be dangerous. Automobiles are one of the few examples, though, where you're _surrounded_ by many of these dangerous sub-systems while attempting a repair on something that's otherwise fairly harmless [brakes, changing a tire, checking fuel pressure, replacing a battery]. The interactions between such subsystems is where the danger lies -- and without the domain knowledge of an auto mechanic, you could easily be left unaware of the dangerous interactions between these subsystems.
drbawb 13y ago
I would argue there's more to literacy than blindly following instructions. In regards to computers, sure, it isn't difficult to follow some instructions. The worst that could happen? Maybe you mistype a flag and end up recursively deleting a directory. However at least most "damage" done on a computer rarely crosses into the physical realm -- anything lost or damaged can often be repaired or restored inside of a few minutes. So, sure, much of "computer literacy" is simply following instructions that will _usually_ work -- but there's not much hanging in the balance if you mess up. Working on cars though? I would urge strong caution against simply following instructions. Even a fairly "simple" procedure such as jumping your car's dead battery can end in _serious injury or death._ Many people don't realize that their $70 car battery, such an innocuous looking box, can provide in excess of several hundred amps when the current is demanded. Shorting a battery is a quick way to create such a demand. Such a short could result in burns, electrocution, explosions [discharging lead acid batteries give off hydrogen gas], and could even result in a bit of rather annoying spot-welding. Working on certain suspension components can easily create enough force to maim or dismember innocent bystanders. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY56ib3I-ew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY56ib3I-ew) (Ditto goes for working on any system with significant amounts of sprung weight -- such as garage doors, another common DIY maintenance item...) Working on your exhaust often requires knowledge of your vehicle's fueling and vapor recovery system. Lest you start welding while there are flammable vapors near the rear of the vehicle. "Knowing that you don't know everything" is often a mark of a wise individual. A tutorial may omit some crucial bit of domain knowledge that is commonly taught in the field, but not common knowledge for the average individual. I certainly agree that people should endeavor to broaden their knowledge and skills using the Internet; but Google is certainly not a substitute for an expert's knowledge, experience, and guidance. Without true literacy, in any field, you may quickly end up doing more harm than good.