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I am beyond happy and proud if HN for keeping such a discourse about these issues! I have so much more respect for the HN community for keeping these issues in

I am beyond happy and proud if HN for keeping such a discourse about these issues! I have so much more respect for the HN community for keeping these issues in the front page and having such a sober view of their implications! Sober views like calling the U.S. a police state? The train where hn had a high-quality discussion about U.S. surveillance and national security policy left the station long, long ago. It was about the time we were getting minute-by-minute postings on the exact position of an airplane seat that didn't contain Edward Snowden.

samstave 13y ago
Yes, calling out the US on the fact that it actually is a police state is sober. If you do not recognize what the true nature of the US is at this point, then you may be in denial about it. While you might say that things are "not that bad" - just because you hav some relative "comfort" (so long as you're not against the State) - does not mean that the actual architecture of the system is not that of a police state.
- twoodfin 13y ago
  Just out of morbid curiosity, when do you think the U.S. became a police state? Decade-level precision is fine.
  - samstave 13y ago
    I would love to give you the long version of this, but here is the answer to your question: The US became a police state as soon as the CIA did its coup of the executive branch. Now, when this actually occurred is debatable - but my opinion is that they succeeded 100% once GHW Bush took the VP spot as Reagan's handler. This coup was a LONG time in the making -- and goes all the way back to Prescott, but ever since 1980 - every president has been a puppet of GHW Bush and the CIA. If you're interested in sources and history, we can discuss further...
    - twoodfin 13y ago
      Intriguing. So why did GHWB lose his reelection campaign? Did he do something to upset his superiors or was losing just a smokescreen to better orchestrate things from behind the scenes?
      - samstave 13y ago
        The illusion of hoice must continue. While I cannot say that GHW Bush wanted to lose the election, I can say that it didn't mater. Clinton was brought into the CIA fold after his complicity to allowing CIA drug importation to Mena Arkansas. Here is a brief clip where Clinton does not deny any of the allegations of the trafficking - he simply attempts to deny any awareness of it. Watch the Mena Connection.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDMktUYvC7k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDMktUYvC7k --- There is a lot more to it as well.
  - penguindev 13y ago
    Perhaps a better question is, in what decades did the US start being a bully to others, including its own citizens. It probably started with Latin American countries (CIA coups, Smedley Butler), vietnam, Iran (Shaw), Afghanistan (when the CIA radicalized them to fight the russians), etc. Ike warned of the MIC, and he was right. Now we're turning the lens inward, as the empire is totally insolvent.

samstave 13y ago

Yes, calling out the US on the fact that it actually is a police state is sober. If you do not recognize what the true nature of the US is at this point, then you may be in denial about it. While you might say that things are "not that bad" - just because you hav some relative "comfort" (so long as you're not against the State) - does not mean that the actual architecture of the system is not that of a police state.

twoodfin 13y ago
Just out of morbid curiosity, when do you think the U.S. became a police state? Decade-level precision is fine.
- samstave 13y ago
  I would love to give you the long version of this, but here is the answer to your question: The US became a police state as soon as the CIA did its coup of the executive branch. Now, when this actually occurred is debatable - but my opinion is that they succeeded 100% once GHW Bush took the VP spot as Reagan's handler. This coup was a LONG time in the making -- and goes all the way back to Prescott, but ever since 1980 - every president has been a puppet of GHW Bush and the CIA. If you're interested in sources and history, we can discuss further...
  - twoodfin 13y ago
    Intriguing. So why did GHWB lose his reelection campaign? Did he do something to upset his superiors or was losing just a smokescreen to better orchestrate things from behind the scenes?
    - samstave 13y ago
      The illusion of hoice must continue. While I cannot say that GHW Bush wanted to lose the election, I can say that it didn't mater. Clinton was brought into the CIA fold after his complicity to allowing CIA drug importation to Mena Arkansas. Here is a brief clip where Clinton does not deny any of the allegations of the trafficking - he simply attempts to deny any awareness of it. Watch the Mena Connection.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDMktUYvC7k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDMktUYvC7k --- There is a lot more to it as well.
- penguindev 13y ago
  Perhaps a better question is, in what decades did the US start being a bully to others, including its own citizens. It probably started with Latin American countries (CIA coups, Smedley Butler), vietnam, Iran (Shaw), Afghanistan (when the CIA radicalized them to fight the russians), etc. Ike warned of the MIC, and he was right. Now we're turning the lens inward, as the empire is totally insolvent.