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The article uses a woman as an example and gives her crimes as: "trespassing, prostitution, drugs, disorderly conduct, petty theft, drinking in public". The pe
by droithomme 13y ago
The article uses a woman as an example and gives her crimes as: "trespassing, prostitution, drugs, disorderly conduct, petty theft, drinking in public".
The petty theft is later discussed as theft from a supermarket, probably of some small food item.
As to the others, why should any of them be imprisonable offenses? Drinking in public? Drugs? Prostitution?
Trespassing is not breaking and entering, which is reasonable as an imprisonable offense. Shouldn't trespassing be an infraction with a modest fine?
Back to that food item she took from Whole Foods. In a fabulously wealthy nation, how is it that she has come to need to shoplift food to be able to eat. Is that not a failure of the society as a whole?
The proposed answer in the article is to have them committed by some sort of court order and place them indefinitely in a "secure nursing home" facility with an ankle bracelet. That's likely to be more costly than prison since it requires round the clock medical care, and is no better than a prison since they are locked up.
I propose a better solution. Decriminalize all of these things, leave this woman alone, and save the $719,436 it cost to imprison her for minor and non-offenses.
The article also makes the claim, "If someone decides he wants to walk around naked, or cannot give his name to a police officer, the likelihood is that he will end up in jail." If police are arresting people without probable cause or even reasonable suspicion, then it is the police that are acting illegally here. You are not required to identify yourself to any police officer just because he asks, and if he asks without reasonable suspicion or probable cause (it depends on the state which one is the threshold), and you refuse to state your name, then he can not arrest you for that sole reason. If he attempts to do so, it is false arrest, and you have the right under the law, upheld by the supreme court, to use any necessary force to resist illegal arrest.
Regarding walking around naked, that is permitted or tolerated in some areas such as nude beaches. There are also issues where people ask why it is that it is legal for men to go topless, yet is criminal for women to go topless? Should not the law apply equally to both men and women? That is a reasonable question and there is no answer that justifies this discrimination that is not intrinsically sexist. Is that what we want? What is so wrong with even total nudity? There is an old man in Barcelona who is well known for going about completely naked, wearing only his tattoos, pierced foreskin and often a full erection. The police do not bother him.
http://chrisrako.blogspot.com/2007/05/naked-man-of-barcelona.html http://chrisrako.blogspot.com/2007/05/naked-man-of-barcelona...
Has Spanish society collapsed as a result? Is it obvious he should be in prison as The Economist advocates as common sense?
Or consider the Jainists, many of who walk about India naked because of their religious beliefs. Are they criminals as well?
http://s781.photobucket.com/albums/yy95/phuongvien_bucket/Doc1.jpg http://s781.photobucket.com/albums/yy95/phuongvien_bucket/Do...
I propose that public nudity and refusing to give your name to police when they have no cause to ask it are both fundamental rights of man and that any society which denies these rights is tyrannical and any person who denies these rights is an enemy of humanity.
- sliverstorm 13y agoYou had me dangling by a thread, I was still sort of with you... then you declare that disallowing public nudity is tyranny? My friend, overstatement is a quick & easy way to lose support.
- fosap 13y agoPublic nudity is mere morals. IMO nothing law should deal with. Tyranny is a strong word, but it seems unreasonable interference.
- tjic 13y ago> Public nudity is mere morals. So are laws against killing people, theft, and beating animals. I'm always dismayed at people who think that the "good" ethical norms that they like are somehow scientific, universally agreed upon, and absolute, whereas the "bad" ethical norms that other people have are merely cultural, subjective, and contingent. We could do worse than to require a few years of ethical theory as a precondition to graduating high school.
- mjallday 13y agoAll those actions you stated have a consequence for some other than the primary participant. Killing someone derives them or life, theft of a possession, beating an animal hurts the animal. Public Nudity may not be comfortable to you but what's the consequence beyond that?
- pandaman 13y agoSeeing naked people in public hurts most people.
- fosap 13y agoFor beating animals you might be right. I don't think so, but maybe you are right. For the rest you are not. Also you somehow see to confuse moral and ethical. Moral is "Eww, that's itchy." For example sodomy. Ethics are a reflection and systematization of the first. The latter is abstract. There are no universal ethics. But several sound systems. Kant's Categorical imperative, several utilitarianism. Hell even Hedonism is ethics and IMO a way better than morals. But all these have in common they do give explanations and justifications, unlike morals. Morals is just "that's nothing one should do" or "We never did that." And I can't see a ethics that would demand the criminalization of public nudity. However it is very easy to reduce to criminalization of killing and theft to a sound first principle. And IMO only these first principles are important enough to force them upon others.