5 ms·

Can HN suggest a good country to trust for hosting servers (if there is such a thing)? EDIT: I just noticed RyanZAG put together a map for crowdsourcing unsafe

by read 13y ago

Can HN suggest a good country to trust for hosting servers (if there is such a thing)? EDIT: I just noticed RyanZAG put together a map for crowdsourcing unsafe hosting countries. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6182001 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6182001

cLeEOGPw 13y ago
Why Canada is green when it has intelligence treaty with USA, and in turn NSA? I consider Canada to be on the same level of trust as USA because of that.
anologwintermut 13y ago
Given that NSA, the Chinese, and presumably a bunch of other countries have a good amount of black hat hacking expertise, I think trusting your hosting provider, regardless of jurisdiction, is probably a bad idea. If you had to, I'd imagine the best idea would be to do some multi-party computation/Byzantine system where you place nodes in mutually antagonistic jurisdictions. This doesn't help for email though, since they mail still has to go to one box first.
mpyne 13y ago
If you're only worried about the NSA, and only worried about pervasive surveillance, the safest thing might actually be in the U.S., but only if you self-host the software and data. I've heard KDE devs recommend Switzerland. But in general it's kind of a quandary. You'd want hosting in a strong nation so that the U.S. doesn't simply use a black bag operation to force-collect the server hardware, but nations that are strong and opposed to the U.S. are undoubtedly being extensively monitored by NSA. Really it all depends on the threat model you're trying to defend against. If you end up with "You can trust me, I'm not from the government" you're already screwed.
gasull 13y ago
Switzerland has strong privacy laws.
- workhere-io 13y ago
  As has Norway.
  - kjetijor 13y ago
    I did have the general impression that Norway had decent privacy laws, it does however seem it's rapidly changing. Norway is implementing the EU "Data retention Directive", 2006/24/EC. While I don't know the exact specifics, it were recently opened for private parties to conduct piracy investigations on behalf of the media industry. I don't imagine they were granted powers in regard to gathering information, I think it's more in regards of keeping/storing it.
  - vidarh 13y ago
    Norway also has extensive history of PST (police security service) carrying out illegal politically motivated surveillance. Including against one of the members of parliament (Berge Furre) tasked to investigate their abuses while he was investigating them (as part of the Lund commission). While it's been a while since the last revelations and perhaps they've gotten better, keep in mind that for about 4 decades the official story was that the members of the various predominantly left wing groups that alleged illegal surveillance were all just paranoid and delusional. Then it was revealed that not only were they right - the surveillance was in many ways substantially worse than they thought. And what they thought was pretty bad. I personally know someone who was followed to and from work every day (he was a member of the communist party, and his route to work took him past the then Soviet embassy), as well as someone who was more than once taunted by high ranking members of PST who gave him details about his private conversations at home with his wife to make it clear they listened to everything he did. In other words, while Norway might seem "safe" now, I'd be cautious given our relatively recent past history combined with the very cozy relationship between Norway and the US.
- jafaku 13y ago
  Having laws is the least of the issues.
- caf 13y ago
  Switzerland is also strongly suspected of selling backdoored ciphering machines to foreign governments.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
sudosandwich 13y ago
I just created an account to ask this after 2 yrs of lurking here. Can you/somebody kindly recommend me a server I can host? I have been looking for a server to host, and I have to admit that I am yet to find company in a safe country which has strong privacy ethics like Lavabit had?
Spooky23 13y ago
Your home has the best legal protections in the United States.
- pietro 13y ago
  Legally, is it still your home if you run your business out of it?
  - mpyne 13y ago
    Yes, but keep in mind if you open it to the public you inherently open it to all the public (incl. the police).
  - Spooky23 13y ago
    IANAL, but my understanding is yes.

by read 13y ago

cLeEOGPw 13y ago

Why Canada is green when it has intelligence treaty with USA, and in turn NSA? I consider Canada to be on the same level of trust as USA because of that.

anologwintermut 13y ago

Given that NSA, the Chinese, and presumably a bunch of other countries have a good amount of black hat hacking expertise, I think trusting your hosting provider, regardless of jurisdiction, is probably a bad idea. If you had to, I'd imagine the best idea would be to do some multi-party computation/Byzantine system where you place nodes in mutually antagonistic jurisdictions. This doesn't help for email though, since they mail still has to go to one box first.

mpyne 13y ago

If you're only worried about the NSA, and only worried about pervasive surveillance, the safest thing might actually be in the U.S., but only if you self-host the software and data. I've heard KDE devs recommend Switzerland. But in general it's kind of a quandary. You'd want hosting in a strong nation so that the U.S. doesn't simply use a black bag operation to force-collect the server hardware, but nations that are strong and opposed to the U.S. are undoubtedly being extensively monitored by NSA. Really it all depends on the threat model you're trying to defend against. If you end up with "You can trust me, I'm not from the government" you're already screwed.

gasull 13y ago

Switzerland has strong privacy laws.

workhere-io 13y ago
As has Norway.
- kjetijor 13y ago
  I did have the general impression that Norway had decent privacy laws, it does however seem it's rapidly changing. Norway is implementing the EU "Data retention Directive", 2006/24/EC. While I don't know the exact specifics, it were recently opened for private parties to conduct piracy investigations on behalf of the media industry. I don't imagine they were granted powers in regard to gathering information, I think it's more in regards of keeping/storing it.
- vidarh 13y ago
  Norway also has extensive history of PST (police security service) carrying out illegal politically motivated surveillance. Including against one of the members of parliament (Berge Furre) tasked to investigate their abuses while he was investigating them (as part of the Lund commission). While it's been a while since the last revelations and perhaps they've gotten better, keep in mind that for about 4 decades the official story was that the members of the various predominantly left wing groups that alleged illegal surveillance were all just paranoid and delusional. Then it was revealed that not only were they right - the surveillance was in many ways substantially worse than they thought. And what they thought was pretty bad. I personally know someone who was followed to and from work every day (he was a member of the communist party, and his route to work took him past the then Soviet embassy), as well as someone who was more than once taunted by high ranking members of PST who gave him details about his private conversations at home with his wife to make it clear they listened to everything he did. In other words, while Norway might seem "safe" now, I'd be cautious given our relatively recent past history combined with the very cozy relationship between Norway and the US.
jafaku 13y ago
Having laws is the least of the issues.
caf 13y ago
Switzerland is also strongly suspected of selling backdoored ciphering machines to foreign governments.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

sudosandwich 13y ago

I just created an account to ask this after 2 yrs of lurking here. Can you/somebody kindly recommend me a server I can host? I have been looking for a server to host, and I have to admit that I am yet to find company in a safe country which has strong privacy ethics like Lavabit had?

Spooky23 13y ago

Your home has the best legal protections in the United States.

pietro 13y ago
Legally, is it still your home if you run your business out of it?
- mpyne 13y ago
  Yes, but keep in mind if you open it to the public you inherently open it to all the public (incl. the police).
- Spooky23 13y ago
  IANAL, but my understanding is yes.