6 ms·

It is just as bad or worse. You have to move the data in/out of the country. It definitely isn't protected when it leaves the country. The only advantage I see

It is just as bad or worse. You have to move the data in/out of the country. It definitely isn't protected when it leaves the country. The only advantage I see is that it punishes US businesses for failing to protest.

smtddr 13y ago
I don't blame the companies; they're about as much a victim of USgov as we are IMHO. That being said, if all the online-storage/cloud-server/email-providers/social-whatever companies in US start going out of business because nobody trusts them I strongly suspect something will have to change. It's just too bad we have to do a "scorched earth"[1] to bring about change. 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorched_earth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorched_earth
- drivingmenuts 13y ago
  > I don't blame the companies; they're as much a victim of USgov as we are IMHO. While it's true that they are victims, they are in a far better place to demand change or to defend themselves. Money buys the ears of lawyers that the average person couldn't even afford to speak to.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- sixothree 13y ago
  This is where I disagree. I do blame companies like Google for not fighting this more. At the very least they make users aware that these laws exist, even if they cannot detail specifics related to their surveillance involvement.
  - MrKurtz 13y ago
    You can't convincingly make that argument since you don't know what lawyers have been doing behind the closed doors of secret court rooms nor do you have knowledge of their relevant lobbying, you're just assuming things. No to forget that Google was the first to publish a transparency report in which it publishes the number of NSLs, so there is that - it's not correct to use "Google" as a shorthand for "US tech companies".
  - smtddr 13y ago
    See this comment : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6182179 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6182179 Fighting the USgov isn't a decision to take lightly regardless of how much money & resources you have. I cannot condemn a company that backs down from that battle. It could hurt an employee(s) significantly, or the whole company. While I agree they have the most resources to fight it, they're not immune to harm from USgov.
  - eliasmacpherson 13y ago
    Do you remember google asking for your telephone number? They knew what they were doing.
smegel 13y ago
You say that as an American obviously. It makes a lot of sense for everyone else.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  >It makes a lot of sense for everyone else. Absolutely!
LekkoscPiwa 13y ago
Dual US/Polish citizen here. Just wanted to say that in many cases abroad (i.e. Poland) the case isn't about the laws protecting your privacy but rather about the Government having no means (technical, resources, know-how, etc) to enforce ridicolous things like reading and storing email contents of all the people. Even with court order just to read stuff in your inbox, I would imagine that the Polish police would have big time difficulties doing anything. These are guys making 700usd a month and the Government doesn't have money and/or the need/desire to hire folks who could execute these things. And I can just imagine that in places like Ukraine the law may say whatever but what happens is this what the highest bidder asked for ;-) Remember, not the whole world works the way the first world or the USA does. Unless of course, what you referred to is that most of the traffic goes via the US soil anyway. But then again, why to stay in the US? Move whole business and yourself abroad :-)) Ironically, I found much, much, much more freedom in post communistic Poland than - oh irony! - Land of the Free.
- kbart 13y ago
  I second to that. If you want security (at least on a servers/ISP level) choose some 3rd world country which government (preferably not very fond of USA) does not have technical means on surveillance. I live in a small EU country and government’s IT forces are just laughable, so I can just imagine that in less civilised countries it should be close to non-existent. Combined with strong encryption to protect data in broad Internet it should do, at least for a while..
  - DominikR 13y ago
    The problem is that most 3rd world countries will just come knocking on your doors and take everything away, if the US goverment requests it. After all, those countries wouldn't be 3rd world countries, if they had the power to resist US threats/requests. Or they are part of the "axis of evil" (or whatever the current propaganda term is), in which case the internet connection to that country could either be cut off, or be heavily censored, if it isn't already happening.
    - 13y ago

smtddr 13y ago

I don't blame the companies; they're about as much a victim of USgov as we are IMHO. That being said, if all the online-storage/cloud-server/email-providers/social-whatever companies in US start going out of business because nobody trusts them I strongly suspect something will have to change. It's just too bad we have to do a "scorched earth"[1] to bring about change. 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorched_earth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorched_earth

drivingmenuts 13y ago
> I don't blame the companies; they're as much a victim of USgov as we are IMHO. While it's true that they are victims, they are in a far better place to demand change or to defend themselves. Money buys the ears of lawyers that the average person couldn't even afford to speak to.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
sixothree 13y ago
This is where I disagree. I do blame companies like Google for not fighting this more. At the very least they make users aware that these laws exist, even if they cannot detail specifics related to their surveillance involvement.
- MrKurtz 13y ago
  You can't convincingly make that argument since you don't know what lawyers have been doing behind the closed doors of secret court rooms nor do you have knowledge of their relevant lobbying, you're just assuming things. No to forget that Google was the first to publish a transparency report in which it publishes the number of NSLs, so there is that - it's not correct to use "Google" as a shorthand for "US tech companies".
- smtddr 13y ago
  See this comment : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6182179 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6182179 Fighting the USgov isn't a decision to take lightly regardless of how much money & resources you have. I cannot condemn a company that backs down from that battle. It could hurt an employee(s) significantly, or the whole company. While I agree they have the most resources to fight it, they're not immune to harm from USgov.
- eliasmacpherson 13y ago
  Do you remember google asking for your telephone number? They knew what they were doing.

smegel 13y ago

You say that as an American obviously. It makes a lot of sense for everyone else.

fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
>It makes a lot of sense for everyone else. Absolutely!

LekkoscPiwa 13y ago

Dual US/Polish citizen here. Just wanted to say that in many cases abroad (i.e. Poland) the case isn't about the laws protecting your privacy but rather about the Government having no means (technical, resources, know-how, etc) to enforce ridicolous things like reading and storing email contents of all the people. Even with court order just to read stuff in your inbox, I would imagine that the Polish police would have big time difficulties doing anything. These are guys making 700usd a month and the Government doesn't have money and/or the need/desire to hire folks who could execute these things. And I can just imagine that in places like Ukraine the law may say whatever but what happens is this what the highest bidder asked for ;-) Remember, not the whole world works the way the first world or the USA does. Unless of course, what you referred to is that most of the traffic goes via the US soil anyway. But then again, why to stay in the US? Move whole business and yourself abroad :-)) Ironically, I found much, much, much more freedom in post communistic Poland than - oh irony! - Land of the Free.

kbart 13y ago
I second to that. If you want security (at least on a servers/ISP level) choose some 3rd world country which government (preferably not very fond of USA) does not have technical means on surveillance. I live in a small EU country and government’s IT forces are just laughable, so I can just imagine that in less civilised countries it should be close to non-existent. Combined with strong encryption to protect data in broad Internet it should do, at least for a while..
- DominikR 13y ago
  The problem is that most 3rd world countries will just come knocking on your doors and take everything away, if the US goverment requests it. After all, those countries wouldn't be 3rd world countries, if they had the power to resist US threats/requests. Or they are part of the "axis of evil" (or whatever the current propaganda term is), in which case the internet connection to that country could either be cut off, or be heavily censored, if it isn't already happening.
  - 13y ago