7 ms·

Donate to the Lavabit Legal Defense Fund

204 points by sethbannon 13y ago

mjolk 13y ago
1. The link doesn't work. 2. As a non-Lavabit user, who are they and why should I give them money?
- josephpmay 13y ago
  They are(were) a fully-encrypted email provider that had no ability to monitor your emails. Edward Snowden hosted his account there, and they had to shut down because of (probably) US government intervention.
  - VladRussian2 13y ago
    it starts to sound like providing fully encrypted solution (where provider just isn't able to cooperate because of no access to plain text) makes the provider de-facto accessory to whatever crime may be committed by perpetrators who used the solution while committing the crime. Basically fully encrypted solution (incl. without government backdoor) moves into the same category as assault gun, ie. something that regular good citizens supposedly just don't have legitimate uses for.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      I'm not sure I catch your drift. I don't see how being an accessory enters the equation at all (how can you be held responsible for providing information you simply do not have?), and there are no current laws concerning "assault guns".
      - unreal37 13y ago
        I get the reasoning. If you provide the ability to communicate securely without a government backdoor, the government will treat you like you assist terrorists. "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." - George W. Bush, Sept 20 2001
        jlgreco 13y ago
        That ship has sailed though, unless they really feel like harassing Phil Zimmermann again...
  - mieses 13y ago
    If a gmail user sends a plain text email to a lavabit user or vice versa, do they consider that scenario to be "fully encrypted". Or do both recipient and sender have to be lavabit users?
    - tehwalrus 13y ago
      they perform(ed) encryption of your inbox using your account password, which they (obviously) don't store. Thus, everything you save to their servers is encrypted by them on your behalf, and they can't decrypt it without you. if you email a gmail account, or a gmail account emails you, obviously a copy will end up on both, at least temporarily. I don't see what more they could do, as a provider - all your metadata and emails encrypted properly for you, shut down completely when (the NSA?) comes knocking.
- sp332 13y ago
  More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6181081 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6181081
- plainOldText 13y ago
  This is who they are/were: About: http://web.archive.org/web/20130429153529/http://lavabit.com/history.html http://web.archive.org/web/20130429153529/http://lavabit.com... Philosophy: http://web.archive.org/web/20130403130816/http://lavabit.com/philosophy.html http://web.archive.org/web/20130403130816/http://lavabit.com... Privacy: http://web.archive.org/web/20130403130804/http://lavabit.com/privacy_policy.html http://web.archive.org/web/20130403130804/http://lavabit.com...
bestdayever 13y ago
Why didn't you just link to their site which already has the link and explains why we should be donating to them? http://lavabit.com/ http://lavabit.com/
- ics 13y ago
  It would probably have been caught by the duplicate checker.
sp332 13y ago
The link from the lavabit homepage is https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=7BCR4A5W9PNN4 https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_b... which actually works.
computer 13y ago
It is important to remind people that they _always_ have a choice, and that there will be support for those that make the right choice. So donate.
- DevoAKA 13y ago
  Donating to a Lavabit Legal Defence Fund through PayPal seems a bit of an oxymoron though, no?
mindstab 13y ago
Keep in mind all your actions are being observed and collated somewhere. If you don't want hassle with your next police run in, or worse, don't live in the US and don't want "special attention" next time at the border, think twice about donating...
- kmfrk 13y ago
  I don't think anyone here ever takes any pleasure in using PayPal. Especially with the seizures - maybe that's the biggest concern with using their service. But that doesn't create an alternative. People have wanted one way farther back than the NSA info dump.
  - microcolonel 13y ago
    Could mail him some gold.
- computer 13y ago
  No. If you want to make a surveillance state less effective, you should generate _more_ noise, not less. When fascism is at risk of taking over, you don't just roll over and take it quietly because you fear they'll annoy you at the border. As a person who has Nothing to Hide, I encrypt everything, and will gladly donate here. If we get everybody to use encryption, nobody will be suspect for using it. If you donate here, there's less risk that others will get hassled for donating.
- CamperBob2 13y ago
  Keep in mind all your actions are being observed and collated somewhere. Absolutely, which is why I donated.
- hnha 13y ago
  j"ust following orders" like a good citizen? change requires change.
- incongruity 13y ago
  Where do we draw the line? At some point, we must take a stand - and that stance must be time, money, voice or vote (and preferably all four). If we continue to take no action, we become part of the problem by our submission and tacit endorsement of the abuse of the legal rights of others. For me, personally, I think it's time to start standing up.
tlrobinson 13y ago
Bitcoin, please.
- mieses 13y ago
  Seriously. First they colocate in Texas. Then use Paypal for donations. It's like they are trying to martyr themselves.
finnh 13y ago
Just donated $100. Never heard of them before today, but am very happy to support the fight they are undertaking on all our behalf.
mieses 13y ago
What did Lavabit think would happen by physically locating servers in the US? It's almost irresponsible to sell customers on the illusion of privacy and to not mention the risk of the servers being confiscated. edit: This whole Lavabit thing is so dumb that I'm inclined to think it was a honeytrap designed to waste supercomputing cycles on decrypting random data.
nodata 13y ago
For those not trusting random PayPal links, you can click the donation link at the bottom of this page: http://lavabit.com/ http://lavabit.com/
- nkuttler 13y ago
  Thanks. I was really surprised when I saw this on the front page as I wasn't aware of the fund and didn't see how to verify the recipient.
fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
I Don't trust Paypal. I sent him something to support@lavabit.com I'll update if it is rejected or something.
thepumpkin1979 13y ago
No BitCoin? Well, here is the PRISM query to find out who contributed: SELECT FROM PayPalTransations WHERE hosted_button_id='7BCR4A5W9PNN4' AND referral_url like '%news.ycombinator.com%';
- computer 13y ago
  To quote myself from below because I find this issue so important to highlight: So what if they can see that you donated to this pro-constitutional defense fund? If you want to make a surveillance state less effective, you should generate _more_ noise, not less. When fascism is at risk of taking over, you don't just roll over and take it quietly because you fear they'll know you're against it. As a person who has Nothing to Hide, I encrypt everything, and will gladly donate here. If we get everybody to use encryption, nobody will be suspect for using it. If you donate here, there's less risk that others will get hassled for donating.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- nailest 13y ago
  my experience after looking at several bitcoin donation addresses is there aren't many bitcoins donated. Most of them have less than one bitcoin while kickstarter projects and paypal donations easily raise thousands of dollars.
  - narcissus 13y ago
    Could it be that the donation addresses keep changing? I imagine if I was pushing for BTC donations, I'd change my address every time I received one...
- sev 13y ago
  Who cares...it's not illegal to donate.
  - 13y ago
fixxer 13y ago
Google et al. should be donating to them. This would be a nice, indirect, low risk way to establish legal precedence, wouldn't it?
33a 13y ago
Just asking, but how legit is this? Does anyone know who set this up and who is managing these donations? It is just a paypal page with nothing that obviously links it to lavabit.
siculars 13y ago
$50 inbound. USA Agitator watch list here I come!
arrowgunz 13y ago
Poor choice for funding a good cause.
mathattack 13y ago
I wish I could give this a dozen upvotes!
CompulsiveCo 13y ago
What legal action are we actually supporting? Defending the rights of a mail provider to not be directly spied upon by the three letter agencies? Transparency in regards to NSA letters? I know they are limited in their speech regarding their legal issues, but is there any explanation on how the funds will be employed?

204 points by sethbannon 13y ago

mjolk 13y ago

1. The link doesn't work. 2. As a non-Lavabit user, who are they and why should I give them money?

josephpmay 13y ago
They are(were) a fully-encrypted email provider that had no ability to monitor your emails. Edward Snowden hosted his account there, and they had to shut down because of (probably) US government intervention.
- VladRussian2 13y ago
  it starts to sound like providing fully encrypted solution (where provider just isn't able to cooperate because of no access to plain text) makes the provider de-facto accessory to whatever crime may be committed by perpetrators who used the solution while committing the crime. Basically fully encrypted solution (incl. without government backdoor) moves into the same category as assault gun, ie. something that regular good citizens supposedly just don't have legitimate uses for.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    I'm not sure I catch your drift. I don't see how being an accessory enters the equation at all (how can you be held responsible for providing information you simply do not have?), and there are no current laws concerning "assault guns".
    - unreal37 13y ago
      I get the reasoning. If you provide the ability to communicate securely without a government backdoor, the government will treat you like you assist terrorists. "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." - George W. Bush, Sept 20 2001
      - jlgreco 13y ago
        That ship has sailed though, unless they really feel like harassing Phil Zimmermann again...
- mieses 13y ago
  If a gmail user sends a plain text email to a lavabit user or vice versa, do they consider that scenario to be "fully encrypted". Or do both recipient and sender have to be lavabit users?
  - tehwalrus 13y ago
    they perform(ed) encryption of your inbox using your account password, which they (obviously) don't store. Thus, everything you save to their servers is encrypted by them on your behalf, and they can't decrypt it without you. if you email a gmail account, or a gmail account emails you, obviously a copy will end up on both, at least temporarily. I don't see what more they could do, as a provider - all your metadata and emails encrypted properly for you, shut down completely when (the NSA?) comes knocking.
sp332 13y ago
More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6181081 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6181081
plainOldText 13y ago
This is who they are/were: About: http://web.archive.org/web/20130429153529/http://lavabit.com/history.html http://web.archive.org/web/20130429153529/http://lavabit.com... Philosophy: http://web.archive.org/web/20130403130816/http://lavabit.com/philosophy.html http://web.archive.org/web/20130403130816/http://lavabit.com... Privacy: http://web.archive.org/web/20130403130804/http://lavabit.com/privacy_policy.html http://web.archive.org/web/20130403130804/http://lavabit.com...

bestdayever 13y ago

Why didn't you just link to their site which already has the link and explains why we should be donating to them? http://lavabit.com/ http://lavabit.com/

ics 13y ago
It would probably have been caught by the duplicate checker.

sp332 13y ago

The link from the lavabit homepage is https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=7BCR4A5W9PNN4 https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_b... which actually works.

computer 13y ago

It is important to remind people that they _always_ have a choice, and that there will be support for those that make the right choice. So donate.

DevoAKA 13y ago
Donating to a Lavabit Legal Defence Fund through PayPal seems a bit of an oxymoron though, no?

mindstab 13y ago

Keep in mind all your actions are being observed and collated somewhere. If you don't want hassle with your next police run in, or worse, don't live in the US and don't want "special attention" next time at the border, think twice about donating...

kmfrk 13y ago
I don't think anyone here ever takes any pleasure in using PayPal. Especially with the seizures - maybe that's the biggest concern with using their service. But that doesn't create an alternative. People have wanted one way farther back than the NSA info dump.
- microcolonel 13y ago
  Could mail him some gold.
computer 13y ago
No. If you want to make a surveillance state less effective, you should generate _more_ noise, not less. When fascism is at risk of taking over, you don't just roll over and take it quietly because you fear they'll annoy you at the border. As a person who has Nothing to Hide, I encrypt everything, and will gladly donate here. If we get everybody to use encryption, nobody will be suspect for using it. If you donate here, there's less risk that others will get hassled for donating.
CamperBob2 13y ago
Keep in mind all your actions are being observed and collated somewhere. Absolutely, which is why I donated.
hnha 13y ago
j"ust following orders" like a good citizen? change requires change.
incongruity 13y ago
Where do we draw the line? At some point, we must take a stand - and that stance must be time, money, voice or vote (and preferably all four). If we continue to take no action, we become part of the problem by our submission and tacit endorsement of the abuse of the legal rights of others. For me, personally, I think it's time to start standing up.

tlrobinson 13y ago

Bitcoin, please.

mieses 13y ago
Seriously. First they colocate in Texas. Then use Paypal for donations. It's like they are trying to martyr themselves.

finnh 13y ago

Just donated $100. Never heard of them before today, but am very happy to support the fight they are undertaking on all our behalf.

mieses 13y ago

What did Lavabit think would happen by physically locating servers in the US? It's almost irresponsible to sell customers on the illusion of privacy and to not mention the risk of the servers being confiscated. edit: This whole Lavabit thing is so dumb that I'm inclined to think it was a honeytrap designed to waste supercomputing cycles on decrypting random data.

nodata 13y ago

For those not trusting random PayPal links, you can click the donation link at the bottom of this page: http://lavabit.com/ http://lavabit.com/

nkuttler 13y ago
Thanks. I was really surprised when I saw this on the front page as I wasn't aware of the fund and didn't see how to verify the recipient.

fnordfnordfnord 13y ago

I Don't trust Paypal. I sent him something to support@lavabit.com I'll update if it is rejected or something.

thepumpkin1979 13y ago

No BitCoin? Well, here is the PRISM query to find out who contributed: SELECT FROM PayPalTransations WHERE hosted_button_id='7BCR4A5W9PNN4' AND referral_url like '%news.ycombinator.com%';

computer 13y ago
To quote myself from below because I find this issue so important to highlight: So what if they can see that you donated to this pro-constitutional defense fund? If you want to make a surveillance state less effective, you should generate _more_ noise, not less. When fascism is at risk of taking over, you don't just roll over and take it quietly because you fear they'll know you're against it. As a person who has Nothing to Hide, I encrypt everything, and will gladly donate here. If we get everybody to use encryption, nobody will be suspect for using it. If you donate here, there's less risk that others will get hassled for donating.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
nailest 13y ago
my experience after looking at several bitcoin donation addresses is there aren't many bitcoins donated. Most of them have less than one bitcoin while kickstarter projects and paypal donations easily raise thousands of dollars.
- narcissus 13y ago
  Could it be that the donation addresses keep changing? I imagine if I was pushing for BTC donations, I'd change my address every time I received one...
sev 13y ago
Who cares...it's not illegal to donate.
- 13y ago

fixxer 13y ago

Google et al. should be donating to them. This would be a nice, indirect, low risk way to establish legal precedence, wouldn't it?

33a 13y ago

Just asking, but how legit is this? Does anyone know who set this up and who is managing these donations? It is just a paypal page with nothing that obviously links it to lavabit.

siculars 13y ago

$50 inbound. USA Agitator watch list here I come!

arrowgunz 13y ago

Poor choice for funding a good cause.

mathattack 13y ago

I wish I could give this a dozen upvotes!

CompulsiveCo 13y ago

What legal action are we actually supporting? Defending the rights of a mail provider to not be directly spied upon by the three letter agencies? Transparency in regards to NSA letters? I know they are limited in their speech regarding their legal issues, but is there any explanation on how the funds will be employed?