4 ms·

Mail provider allegedly used by Snowden suspending operations

134 points by subsystem 13y ago

sbenfsck 13y ago
Donate! Ladar is fighting for your rights too.
- plainOldText 13y ago
  Only after seeing your comment I realized there is a link to donate to the their legal fund. Thanks.
junto 13y ago
That is crazy. I've recently signed up for an account. How annoying. I hope he wins his fight. Talk about slapping down on the little guy. His choice was a noble one. How many others would walk away from their business rather than be complicit in crimes of the state against it's own people? Few I imagine.
- drcube 13y ago
  Funny, I was just told a company could be charged with obstructing justice if they shut down in the face of NSA requests[1]. I too, obviously, believe Lavabit's choice was noble and to be emulated. If every company did this, we'd all be vastly better off. [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6104229 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6104229
  - davorak 13y ago
    I asked in the referenced thread for any US precedence of forcing an innocent to work against their will. I do not know of any. If the courts, NSA, congress has been forcing innoscents to work against their will then it will greatly change my view/ understanding of the US government, the problems faced by the american people and the world.
    - VladRussian2 13y ago
      >If the courts, NSA, congress has been forcing innoscents to work against their will basic subpoena forces one to provide the required info. With a little bit of a stretch we can see how a subpoena can be issued for the [future] clear texts that "your webpage" ( an applet downloaded as part of the web page ) will "contain" before sending encrypted version back to your server - in short it means forcing to implement backdoor.
      - davorak 13y ago
        > will "contain" before sending encrypted version back to your server - in short it means forcing to implement backdoor. Oh sure, definitely, that seems like that is within the scope of the currently claimed power. As far as I know though the operator has the option of closing up shop however and therefore is not being forced to work against their will, but not a fun choice though. I am interested in any case law that disallows the operator the option of shutting down rather then implement a back door or anything similar.
    - larubbio 13y ago
      Would some of the issues around pharmacies being required to sell birth control or plan b medications fall into the same category?
      - commandar 13y ago
        I believe that's a completely different issue given that selling pharmaceuticals is highly regulated and requires licensing. To my knowledge, there also aren't any sanctions for a pharmacist choosing to quit rather than dispense medication as required.
plainOldText 13y ago
I believe donating to their Legal Defense Fund is a sensible thing to do if you care about your rights. Link: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=7BCR4A5W9PNN4 https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_b...
- GigabyteCoin 13y ago
  Sensitive? think you meant sensible?
  - bitwize 13y ago
    In French, sensible means both "sensible" and "sensitive".
    - GigabyteCoin 13y ago
      Merci pour ca.
  - plainOldText 13y ago
    Corrected. Thanks.
- DamnYuppie 13y ago
  Having been a user for awhile now I am sad to see this go. I too would encourage everyone who can to donate.
junto 13y ago
Other story that links directly to the Lavabit website, rather than boingboing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6180846 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6180846 Notably to his IP address rather than the domain itself. Maybe there is an expectancy that he will have the domain removed by the FBI?
- raganwald 13y ago
  I tried submitting lavabit.com and the server responded by telling me not to submit spam. Perhaps the domain is blacklisted?
peterjancelis 13y ago
So the US government will order you to suspend the privacy of your users, after which they turn around and intimidate you in not violating their privacy in what they are doing. Got it.
- terabytest 13y ago
  Yes, we can.
- ihsw 13y ago
  American jurisprudence has never been free of bias or prejudice, especially the Federal government. It's a matter of official policy to arrange for arbitrary assertion of power.
themckman 13y ago
Wow, someone mentioned these guys yesterday in some thread and I went to take a look. I was pretty interested, however, I noticed that some critical links were broken (e.g. login and sign up), so I wandered away. I guess I know why those links were broken...
clicks 13y ago
So now we know of one model of e-mail systems that's secure. I hope more e-mail service startups pop up that use similar techniques of managing e-mails. Are there any more like it right now out there?
WestCoastJustin 13y ago
Lavabit is totally unknown to me. Did it offer some special security features? Anyone have any insights? UPDATE: I'll answer my own question with a google cache of Lavabit's feature list @ http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:A6bRHXto3b8J:lavabit.com/features.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:A6bRHXt...
- dnskw 13y ago
  More info: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6181081 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6181081
rdl 13y ago
Someone really should implement the third party legal notification address cc which publishes all, and particularly interesting, mail. If your NSL comes in on a published address ("for quality control and screening purposes"), and gets published as a matter of routine ops, it is out of your hands, and fuck them.
- malandrew 13y ago
  It's probably served the same way subpeona's are, in person.
  - rdl 13y ago
    I didn't think nonparty federal subpoenas were served in person. It apparently varies by district.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
orestmayski 13y ago
So what mail provided should we now be using?..
- DanBC 13y ago
  Use any mail provider, but encrypt all your email. This has the unfortunate effect of providing plenty of meta data, and a tool for Them to lock you up until you decrypt your communications. Or you encrypt the communication and use some form of anonymous remailer, hoping that these haven't been compromised by Them. Another disadvantage of both methods is getting more people using good encryption, and making sure they do so correctly.
malandrew 13y ago
Can't they just changes jurisdictions? It's not like the US is the only place to incorporate and host servers. It's be awesome if we could invent the legal equivalent of a vagrant box for corporate personhood. How cool would it be if you could easily transfer your company between countries, choosing the jurisdiction most convenient for the moment.
- Sonicmouse 13y ago
  If it move overseas, then the gov has 100% rights to store and search your traffic if you connect to said service. Everyone overseas are terrorists, after all.

134 points by subsystem 13y ago

sbenfsck 13y ago

Donate! Ladar is fighting for your rights too.

plainOldText 13y ago
Only after seeing your comment I realized there is a link to donate to the their legal fund. Thanks.

junto 13y ago

That is crazy. I've recently signed up for an account. How annoying. I hope he wins his fight. Talk about slapping down on the little guy. His choice was a noble one. How many others would walk away from their business rather than be complicit in crimes of the state against it's own people? Few I imagine.

drcube 13y ago
Funny, I was just told a company could be charged with obstructing justice if they shut down in the face of NSA requests[1]. I too, obviously, believe Lavabit's choice was noble and to be emulated. If every company did this, we'd all be vastly better off. [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6104229 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6104229
- davorak 13y ago
  I asked in the referenced thread for any US precedence of forcing an innocent to work against their will. I do not know of any. If the courts, NSA, congress has been forcing innoscents to work against their will then it will greatly change my view/ understanding of the US government, the problems faced by the american people and the world.
  - VladRussian2 13y ago
    >If the courts, NSA, congress has been forcing innoscents to work against their will basic subpoena forces one to provide the required info. With a little bit of a stretch we can see how a subpoena can be issued for the [future] clear texts that "your webpage" ( an applet downloaded as part of the web page ) will "contain" before sending encrypted version back to your server - in short it means forcing to implement backdoor.
    - davorak 13y ago
      > will "contain" before sending encrypted version back to your server - in short it means forcing to implement backdoor. Oh sure, definitely, that seems like that is within the scope of the currently claimed power. As far as I know though the operator has the option of closing up shop however and therefore is not being forced to work against their will, but not a fun choice though. I am interested in any case law that disallows the operator the option of shutting down rather then implement a back door or anything similar.
  - larubbio 13y ago
    Would some of the issues around pharmacies being required to sell birth control or plan b medications fall into the same category?
    - commandar 13y ago
      I believe that's a completely different issue given that selling pharmaceuticals is highly regulated and requires licensing. To my knowledge, there also aren't any sanctions for a pharmacist choosing to quit rather than dispense medication as required.

plainOldText 13y ago

I believe donating to their Legal Defense Fund is a sensible thing to do if you care about your rights. Link: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=7BCR4A5W9PNN4 https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_b...

GigabyteCoin 13y ago
Sensitive? think you meant sensible?
- bitwize 13y ago
  In French, sensible means both "sensible" and "sensitive".
  - GigabyteCoin 13y ago
    Merci pour ca.
- plainOldText 13y ago
  Corrected. Thanks.
DamnYuppie 13y ago
Having been a user for awhile now I am sad to see this go. I too would encourage everyone who can to donate.

junto 13y ago

Other story that links directly to the Lavabit website, rather than boingboing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6180846 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6180846 Notably to his IP address rather than the domain itself. Maybe there is an expectancy that he will have the domain removed by the FBI?

raganwald 13y ago
I tried submitting lavabit.com and the server responded by telling me not to submit spam. Perhaps the domain is blacklisted?

peterjancelis 13y ago

So the US government will order you to suspend the privacy of your users, after which they turn around and intimidate you in not violating their privacy in what they are doing. Got it.

terabytest 13y ago
Yes, we can.
ihsw 13y ago
American jurisprudence has never been free of bias or prejudice, especially the Federal government. It's a matter of official policy to arrange for arbitrary assertion of power.

themckman 13y ago

Wow, someone mentioned these guys yesterday in some thread and I went to take a look. I was pretty interested, however, I noticed that some critical links were broken (e.g. login and sign up), so I wandered away. I guess I know why those links were broken...

clicks 13y ago

So now we know of one model of e-mail systems that's secure. I hope more e-mail service startups pop up that use similar techniques of managing e-mails. Are there any more like it right now out there?

WestCoastJustin 13y ago

Lavabit is totally unknown to me. Did it offer some special security features? Anyone have any insights? UPDATE: I'll answer my own question with a google cache of Lavabit's feature list @ http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:A6bRHXto3b8J:lavabit.com/features.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:A6bRHXt...

dnskw 13y ago
More info: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6181081 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6181081

rdl 13y ago

Someone really should implement the third party legal notification address cc which publishes all, and particularly interesting, mail. If your NSL comes in on a published address ("for quality control and screening purposes"), and gets published as a matter of routine ops, it is out of your hands, and fuck them.

malandrew 13y ago
It's probably served the same way subpeona's are, in person.
- rdl 13y ago
  I didn't think nonparty federal subpoenas were served in person. It apparently varies by district.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

orestmayski 13y ago

So what mail provided should we now be using?..

DanBC 13y ago
Use any mail provider, but encrypt all your email. This has the unfortunate effect of providing plenty of meta data, and a tool for Them to lock you up until you decrypt your communications. Or you encrypt the communication and use some form of anonymous remailer, hoping that these haven't been compromised by Them. Another disadvantage of both methods is getting more people using good encryption, and making sure they do so correctly.

malandrew 13y ago

Can't they just changes jurisdictions? It's not like the US is the only place to incorporate and host servers. It's be awesome if we could invent the legal equivalent of a vagrant box for corporate personhood. How cool would it be if you could easily transfer your company between countries, choosing the jurisdiction most convenient for the moment.

Sonicmouse 13y ago
If it move overseas, then the gov has 100% rights to store and search your traffic if you connect to said service. Everyone overseas are terrorists, after all.