6 ms·

Being a bit pedantic here, I'd just like to point out that development of schizophrenia is not a mild side effect. With higher THC% strains, we have no idea the

Being a bit pedantic here, I'd just like to point out that development of schizophrenia is not a mild side effect. With higher THC% strains, we have no idea the extent of latent mental disorders we're stimulating.

kyro 13y ago
Maybe my wording was confusing. I didn't mean to say Schizophrenia is a mild side-effect by any means. Rather, the most dangerous side-effect we know of is a possible link to the development of Schizophrenia, and other than that, the remaining side-effects are rather mild. In a 65yr old patient with advanced-stage cancer, development of Schizophrenia just is not high up on the list of concerns.
duaneb 13y ago
It's not clear whether the schizophrenia induced is stimulated or just aggravated—i.e., was the person already a schizophrenic with a high threshold for psychosis that the weed lowered? I don't think we'll know for a long time.
- S_A_P 13y ago
  to add to that, its also highly likely (no pun intended) that someone who is schizophrenic would be aware something is not right and try to self medicate...
  - duaneb 13y ago
    From what I'm aware, Schizophrenia develops in the mid 20s—it's entirely possible someone could become a regular user before realizing they were schizophrenic. And (as I mentioned below) I've witnessed a weed-induced psychotic episode. I think it's highly unlikely someone would wish to continue after experiencing that.
  - hexagonc 13y ago
    Actually, I suspect that pre-schizophrenic people might use marijuana not for self-medication, because they think something is wrong, but rather because early onset schizophrenia may intensify the pleasurable effects of marijuana.
- foobarbazqux 13y ago
  You can't "already have" schizophrenia without having the symptoms of schizophrenia (assuming you aren't on medication that completely controls the symptoms). The reason is that schizophrenia and almost all other mental illnesses are diagnosed on the basis of behavior. The current thinking is that there's a genetic predisposition, and then certain environmental factors like child abuse (linked to mental illness in general) and exposure to hallucinogens will increase the chance of the condition developing.
  - vacri 13y ago
    Psychosis is not required for a definition of Schizophrenia, or at least, it wasn't in the late 90s when we looked at it in the DSM. The most frequent symptom of Schizophrenia at the time was 'hearing voices', and that struck 69% of diagnoses. Have a look at the DSM-IV criteria. And certainly, it's possible to have a lighter form of schizophrenia that is worsened by whatever factor.
    - foobarbazqux 13y ago
      Auditory hallucinations indicate psychosis; psychosis itself is not a symptom but a catch-all state of mind that refers to many different symptoms, including auditory hallucinations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia#Criteria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia#Criteria Agreed that schizophrenia could be aggravated by pot; I was just disputing that you could "have" schizophrenia without having ever presented any of the symptoms. I may have incorrectly inferred this claim from the original post.
  - duaneb 13y ago
    > You can't "already have" schizophrenia without having the symptoms of schizophrenia (assuming you aren't on medication that completely controls the symptoms). Yes you can, you can be genetically predisposed before the symptoms appear.
    - foobarbazqux 13y ago
JPKab 13y ago
As a person who had a roommate whose schizophrenia was likely induced by heavy marijuana use (along with his tripping on multiple bottles of Robitussin), the fact of the matter is that the harm done to this small percentage of people is vastly outweighed by the damage done to people who can't get access to it for their medical needs. And that's ignoring the huge harm caused by prosecuting recreational users due to an absurdly ineffective prohibition policy. The higher % strains, by the way, are a direct result of prohibition. If a drug dealer is caught with an ounce of high grade that sells for 400, vs. an ounce of low grade that sells for 100, he gets the same penalty. Take a wild guess which one brings more reward for the risk. And this, my friend, is why you have higher THC %.
- pstuart 13y ago
  Sorry about your roommate but that is anectdata. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19560900 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19560900
  - foobarbazqux 13y ago
    All that this study shows is that the amount of psychosis and schizophrenia in the population stayed constant. This doesn't in and of itself disprove a link between cannabis use and schizophrenia, it just disproves the prior hypothesis that a greater percentage of people would develop it.
    - rhizome 13y ago
      Right, during a period in which pot use increased.
      - foobarbazqux 13y ago
        Sure, but it's entirely possible the schizophrenia-prone population did not alter their pot usage. Also, if there's a link to the amount consumed, the number of individuals smoking pot at all could have increased while the number of individuals smoking enough pot to trigger psychosis and schizophrenia stayed constant. Wider consumption of alcohol doesn't necessarily correlate with more alcoholism.
HNJohnC 13y ago
Straight out of the misinformation arsenal of the anti drug crowd; in fact there is no evidence that the strongest modern strains are any stronger than the strongest strains available in the 60's.
- knowaveragejoe 13y ago
  That's not true. 40+ years of breeding plus advancements in botany and horticulture have yielded us some incredibly powerful strains. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marijuana#Concentration_of_psychoactive_ingredients http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marijuana#Concentration_of_psyc...
  - HNJohnC 13y ago
    In fact it is true, people have been concentrating thc for millenia, there is nothing out there stronger today than there has been for thousands of years: http://www.briancbennett.com/history/excerpts/thc-content.htm http://www.briancbennett.com/history/excerpts/thc-content.ht...

kyro 13y ago

Maybe my wording was confusing. I didn't mean to say Schizophrenia is a mild side-effect by any means. Rather, the most dangerous side-effect we know of is a possible link to the development of Schizophrenia, and other than that, the remaining side-effects are rather mild. In a 65yr old patient with advanced-stage cancer, development of Schizophrenia just is not high up on the list of concerns.

duaneb 13y ago

It's not clear whether the schizophrenia induced is stimulated or just aggravated—i.e., was the person already a schizophrenic with a high threshold for psychosis that the weed lowered? I don't think we'll know for a long time.

S_A_P 13y ago
to add to that, its also highly likely (no pun intended) that someone who is schizophrenic would be aware something is not right and try to self medicate...
- duaneb 13y ago
  From what I'm aware, Schizophrenia develops in the mid 20s—it's entirely possible someone could become a regular user before realizing they were schizophrenic. And (as I mentioned below) I've witnessed a weed-induced psychotic episode. I think it's highly unlikely someone would wish to continue after experiencing that.
- hexagonc 13y ago
  Actually, I suspect that pre-schizophrenic people might use marijuana not for self-medication, because they think something is wrong, but rather because early onset schizophrenia may intensify the pleasurable effects of marijuana.
foobarbazqux 13y ago
You can't "already have" schizophrenia without having the symptoms of schizophrenia (assuming you aren't on medication that completely controls the symptoms). The reason is that schizophrenia and almost all other mental illnesses are diagnosed on the basis of behavior. The current thinking is that there's a genetic predisposition, and then certain environmental factors like child abuse (linked to mental illness in general) and exposure to hallucinogens will increase the chance of the condition developing.
- vacri 13y ago
  Psychosis is not required for a definition of Schizophrenia, or at least, it wasn't in the late 90s when we looked at it in the DSM. The most frequent symptom of Schizophrenia at the time was 'hearing voices', and that struck 69% of diagnoses. Have a look at the DSM-IV criteria. And certainly, it's possible to have a lighter form of schizophrenia that is worsened by whatever factor.
  - foobarbazqux 13y ago
    Auditory hallucinations indicate psychosis; psychosis itself is not a symptom but a catch-all state of mind that refers to many different symptoms, including auditory hallucinations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia#Criteria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia#Criteria Agreed that schizophrenia could be aggravated by pot; I was just disputing that you could "have" schizophrenia without having ever presented any of the symptoms. I may have incorrectly inferred this claim from the original post.
- duaneb 13y ago
  > You can't "already have" schizophrenia without having the symptoms of schizophrenia (assuming you aren't on medication that completely controls the symptoms). Yes you can, you can be genetically predisposed before the symptoms appear.
  - foobarbazqux 13y ago

JPKab 13y ago

As a person who had a roommate whose schizophrenia was likely induced by heavy marijuana use (along with his tripping on multiple bottles of Robitussin), the fact of the matter is that the harm done to this small percentage of people is vastly outweighed by the damage done to people who can't get access to it for their medical needs. And that's ignoring the huge harm caused by prosecuting recreational users due to an absurdly ineffective prohibition policy. The higher % strains, by the way, are a direct result of prohibition. If a drug dealer is caught with an ounce of high grade that sells for 400, vs. an ounce of low grade that sells for 100, he gets the same penalty. Take a wild guess which one brings more reward for the risk. And this, my friend, is why you have higher THC %.

pstuart 13y ago
Sorry about your roommate but that is anectdata. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19560900 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19560900
- foobarbazqux 13y ago
  All that this study shows is that the amount of psychosis and schizophrenia in the population stayed constant. This doesn't in and of itself disprove a link between cannabis use and schizophrenia, it just disproves the prior hypothesis that a greater percentage of people would develop it.
  - rhizome 13y ago
    Right, during a period in which pot use increased.
    - foobarbazqux 13y ago
      Sure, but it's entirely possible the schizophrenia-prone population did not alter their pot usage. Also, if there's a link to the amount consumed, the number of individuals smoking pot at all could have increased while the number of individuals smoking enough pot to trigger psychosis and schizophrenia stayed constant. Wider consumption of alcohol doesn't necessarily correlate with more alcoholism.

HNJohnC 13y ago

Straight out of the misinformation arsenal of the anti drug crowd; in fact there is no evidence that the strongest modern strains are any stronger than the strongest strains available in the 60's.

knowaveragejoe 13y ago
That's not true. 40+ years of breeding plus advancements in botany and horticulture have yielded us some incredibly powerful strains. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marijuana#Concentration_of_psychoactive_ingredients http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marijuana#Concentration_of_psyc...
- HNJohnC 13y ago
  In fact it is true, people have been concentrating thc for millenia, there is nothing out there stronger today than there has been for thousands of years: http://www.briancbennett.com/history/excerpts/thc-content.htm http://www.briancbennett.com/history/excerpts/thc-content.ht...