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Even for employees, startups are hard and take commitment. It's not for everyone, in fact it's probably not for most. People seem to have this idea of lavish Zy

Even for employees, startups are hard and take commitment. It's not for everyone, in fact it's probably not for most. People seem to have this idea of lavish Zynga style life styles. It's not. It's really really hard work. You still have to do as you're told. Everything is always going wrong. You still have to be responsible for your productivity. In fact you have to do a lot more. You cannot just hide. As startups are not anywhere near a guaranteed job, downturns are really hard on morale, but you have to stick through it. Why do you have to? Because commitment. If you aren't ready for that kind of commitment, then early stage start ups are not for you probably. As an employee you will more than likely not end up making as much as you would elsewhere in the long run. What do you get out of it then? Depends. I think it's worth it because I learn a lot and because my contributions really make a difference. Even if I don't have input in the broader direction (actually a good thing), I know my value.

guynamedloren 13y ago
> People seem to have this idea of lavish Zynga style life styles. It's not. It's really really hard work. Yes, I absolutely agree with you. But in this particular case, I didn't leave because it was hard. I left because it was easy. Too easy. I wasn't challenged. The work I was doing was mundane and repetitive, and I didn't feel like what I was working on was important (or fulfilling). My productivity was great. I excelled. I made an effort to contribute in every way I could. But at the end of the day, I was just another dev.
- btipling 13y ago
  Mundane is hard, and working at a startup can require mundane work. Lots of it. Automate whatever you can whenever you have time.
  - scott_s 13y ago
    The main benefit for working at startup is supposed to be working on interesting things. The author no longer felt that he was working on interesting things. This is very different from thinking the work was too hard.
- jbail 13y ago
  But at the end of the day, I was just another dev. This. A thousand times. At every company I've EVER worked for, I eventually had this exact same feeling. Even as the lead engineer, team lead, tech lead, or whatever other "top developer" role I've held, I always feel like this. And I always eventually quit too. It's gotten worse in the past few years. I can barely make it one year before I feel like "just another dev", become completely de-motivated and start heading for the exits. I've realized, at age 31, that I am a shitty employee and I always will be. I'm not supposed to work for other people. It doesn't really make me happy. It doesn't matter if its at a startup or a Big Co, I always feel like "just another dev", bored and ultimately like my potential is being cut short. In the past year, this was sort of an epiphany for me. I have to follow the beat of my own drummer, be my own boss, make my own destiny. Will this bring me to self actualization? Will this be what I'm looking for? Or, will I feel empty once I get there? I have no clue, but I've got to find out. Thanks for sharing your story, Loren. You're in good company. Good luck with figuring out what's important to you.
  - ryandrake 13y ago
    You're not a "shitty employee". Maybe you are just not in the right role. Most companies I've worked for consider developers to be just cogs that type code into computers all day. Many developers are just fine with this, but some of us want to do more. Like I said in another reply, the way I fixed this was to change careers and move over to the product management side. Unfortunately, I kind of had to leave development behind to do that, but in the balance, I've found the product side more rewarding. It would be great to find a place where you could do both, but my understanding is these roles/companies are very rare. I suppose you could start your own company and then you'll definitely be doing it all, but that's kind of a risky way to get job satisfaction.
    - eshvk 13y ago
      Slightly offtopic. I would love to hear more on how you made the switch happen. I sort of understand OP's perspective on the whole deal of people who work with code being considered to mere cogs and am also thinking about a switch.
- shearnie 13y ago
  I had similar motivations for leaving a startup a few years ago. Not because it was easy, the work was quite challenging, but I think more because of the lack of involvement with creative input for the products I was building. I was "just another dev". I think this is an important lesson for any company building software, you'll lose top talent if you just treat them as some kind of fungible code churning cog.
paulhauggis 13y ago
"As startups are not anywhere near a guaranteed job, downturns are really hard on morale, but you have to stick through it. Why do you have to? Because commitment. If you aren't ready for that kind of commitment, then early stage start ups are not for you probably." I feel like working for a startup in this way is for suckers. I've seen it so many times: You work really hard on a project and either the startup goes under or it gets bought out and you get a very small percentage (this almost never happens, however). If I'm going to make that kind of commitment and take that kind of risk, I might as well start my own company. The risks are almost the same and the payout is much higher. Yes, you may learn a lot from the experience, but does it have to be at the expense of your mental health and self-worth?
mcv 13y ago
I've felt like this at every company I worked for, and not just at startups. At the start, I'm learning tons of new stuff, solving new problems, growing a lot of lots of different ways, and that gives me energy to put in way too much work. Eventually that slows down; I've seen those problems before, it's just another feature on some thing I've already worked on, and it starts to feel repetitive. I just need something new every once in a while. I thrive on change, apparently. (My brother doesn't; he's been working at the same company forever.) The problem is: I never get around to my own projects; when I started at a new job, all my energy goes into that. When it turns into an old job, that extra energy is gone. I never have the surplus energy for my own stuff.

guynamedloren 13y ago

> People seem to have this idea of lavish Zynga style life styles. It's not. It's really really hard work. Yes, I absolutely agree with you. But in this particular case, I didn't leave because it was hard. I left because it was easy. Too easy. I wasn't challenged. The work I was doing was mundane and repetitive, and I didn't feel like what I was working on was important (or fulfilling). My productivity was great. I excelled. I made an effort to contribute in every way I could. But at the end of the day, I was just another dev.

btipling 13y ago
Mundane is hard, and working at a startup can require mundane work. Lots of it. Automate whatever you can whenever you have time.
- scott_s 13y ago
  The main benefit for working at startup is supposed to be working on interesting things. The author no longer felt that he was working on interesting things. This is very different from thinking the work was too hard.
jbail 13y ago
But at the end of the day, I was just another dev. This. A thousand times. At every company I've EVER worked for, I eventually had this exact same feeling. Even as the lead engineer, team lead, tech lead, or whatever other "top developer" role I've held, I always feel like this. And I always eventually quit too. It's gotten worse in the past few years. I can barely make it one year before I feel like "just another dev", become completely de-motivated and start heading for the exits. I've realized, at age 31, that I am a shitty employee and I always will be. I'm not supposed to work for other people. It doesn't really make me happy. It doesn't matter if its at a startup or a Big Co, I always feel like "just another dev", bored and ultimately like my potential is being cut short. In the past year, this was sort of an epiphany for me. I have to follow the beat of my own drummer, be my own boss, make my own destiny. Will this bring me to self actualization? Will this be what I'm looking for? Or, will I feel empty once I get there? I have no clue, but I've got to find out. Thanks for sharing your story, Loren. You're in good company. Good luck with figuring out what's important to you.
- ryandrake 13y ago
  You're not a "shitty employee". Maybe you are just not in the right role. Most companies I've worked for consider developers to be just cogs that type code into computers all day. Many developers are just fine with this, but some of us want to do more. Like I said in another reply, the way I fixed this was to change careers and move over to the product management side. Unfortunately, I kind of had to leave development behind to do that, but in the balance, I've found the product side more rewarding. It would be great to find a place where you could do both, but my understanding is these roles/companies are very rare. I suppose you could start your own company and then you'll definitely be doing it all, but that's kind of a risky way to get job satisfaction.
  - eshvk 13y ago
    Slightly offtopic. I would love to hear more on how you made the switch happen. I sort of understand OP's perspective on the whole deal of people who work with code being considered to mere cogs and am also thinking about a switch.
shearnie 13y ago
I had similar motivations for leaving a startup a few years ago. Not because it was easy, the work was quite challenging, but I think more because of the lack of involvement with creative input for the products I was building. I was "just another dev". I think this is an important lesson for any company building software, you'll lose top talent if you just treat them as some kind of fungible code churning cog.

paulhauggis 13y ago

"As startups are not anywhere near a guaranteed job, downturns are really hard on morale, but you have to stick through it. Why do you have to? Because commitment. If you aren't ready for that kind of commitment, then early stage start ups are not for you probably." I feel like working for a startup in this way is for suckers. I've seen it so many times: You work really hard on a project and either the startup goes under or it gets bought out and you get a very small percentage (this almost never happens, however). If I'm going to make that kind of commitment and take that kind of risk, I might as well start my own company. The risks are almost the same and the payout is much higher. Yes, you may learn a lot from the experience, but does it have to be at the expense of your mental health and self-worth?

mcv 13y ago

I've felt like this at every company I worked for, and not just at startups. At the start, I'm learning tons of new stuff, solving new problems, growing a lot of lots of different ways, and that gives me energy to put in way too much work. Eventually that slows down; I've seen those problems before, it's just another feature on some thing I've already worked on, and it starts to feel repetitive. I just need something new every once in a while. I thrive on change, apparently. (My brother doesn't; he's been working at the same company forever.) The problem is: I never get around to my own projects; when I started at a new job, all my energy goes into that. When it turns into an old job, that extra energy is gone. I never have the surplus energy for my own stuff.