6 ms·

Gas is expensive, land is flat, weather is nice...all true, but then again, the same could be said about Paris, Barcelona, Milan, etc. The most important factor

Gas is expensive, land is flat, weather is nice...all true, but then again, the same could be said about Paris, Barcelona, Milan, etc. The most important factor is that they accommodated them. Cities should always accommodate the lowest common denominators of society first and foremost (starting with pedestrians), and then progressively accommodate more, but never more at the expense of those that came before. It is very difficult to harm pedestrian activity with public transportation and bicycles. When it comes to cars, the picture changes drastically: people clamoring for free parking are implicitly raising the price of housing for people that do not drive. Wide boulevards and high speed freeways divide cities geographically, increase noise to the point of hindering inhabitability (also increases housing costs), and inhibit movement (which essentially limits trade in the same way that national borders do). Accommodating their preferences for traffic light timing drastically increases walk times for pedestrians. And their speed preferences and right-of-way preferences increase death risks. That isn't to say that cities shouldn't accommodate cars. They should just stop doing it at the expense of pedestrians, bicyclists, and public transportation users.

iskander 13y ago
> weather is nice People keep saying this all over the thread but it rains so damn much in Amsterdam! The Dutch don't seem to mind, throw on some rain gear and bike 10km to work. Almost no one does that in the US, I think it's just a big expression of cultural differences.
- saosebastiao 13y ago
  It rains a lot in Seattle, and we still have plenty of cyclists. Rain isn't as big of a factor as extreme heat/cold when considering whether to ride a bike or not.
- gambiting 13y ago
  Rain is not a problem - temperature is. In Poland we get two completely opposite extremes. Today it was 40C outside and I can't imagine biking anywhere, and in winter it can go as low as -30C. Again, almost impossible to bike. It leaves you with a few months when biking to work is a reasonable to choice. In the UK though, I could bike to work every single day of the year, because it's never too cold or too hot to cycle. I imagine that the Netherlands are similar.
  - LaGrange 13y ago
    You do realize that we just got past the heatwave here, and we also got quite low temperatures in December? The Polish winter is a bit harsher, but not that much. I am from Warsaw, and biked there, and the difference in infrastructure quality and planner priorities is huge. I mean, people still think it's a good idea to build elevated highways in the cities there.
jmharvey 13y ago
> but never more at the expense of those that came before This is the standard anti-bike, pro-car argument in most American cities. That cars are already here, and adding bike infrastructure takes away from space for cars. The fact is, when you progressively accommodate more forms of transit, it's ALWAYS at the expense of those that came before. And that's ok. Pareto optimization is a lousy way to find a global optimum, in any system.
- smutticus 13y ago
  You could always try making the argument that more people riding means less people driving. Thereby making the roads less crowded for everyone who continues to drive.

iskander 13y ago

> weather is nice People keep saying this all over the thread but it rains so damn much in Amsterdam! The Dutch don't seem to mind, throw on some rain gear and bike 10km to work. Almost no one does that in the US, I think it's just a big expression of cultural differences.

saosebastiao 13y ago
It rains a lot in Seattle, and we still have plenty of cyclists. Rain isn't as big of a factor as extreme heat/cold when considering whether to ride a bike or not.
gambiting 13y ago
Rain is not a problem - temperature is. In Poland we get two completely opposite extremes. Today it was 40C outside and I can't imagine biking anywhere, and in winter it can go as low as -30C. Again, almost impossible to bike. It leaves you with a few months when biking to work is a reasonable to choice. In the UK though, I could bike to work every single day of the year, because it's never too cold or too hot to cycle. I imagine that the Netherlands are similar.
- LaGrange 13y ago
  You do realize that we just got past the heatwave here, and we also got quite low temperatures in December? The Polish winter is a bit harsher, but not that much. I am from Warsaw, and biked there, and the difference in infrastructure quality and planner priorities is huge. I mean, people still think it's a good idea to build elevated highways in the cities there.

jmharvey 13y ago

> but never more at the expense of those that came before This is the standard anti-bike, pro-car argument in most American cities. That cars are already here, and adding bike infrastructure takes away from space for cars. The fact is, when you progressively accommodate more forms of transit, it's ALWAYS at the expense of those that came before. And that's ok. Pareto optimization is a lousy way to find a global optimum, in any system.

smutticus 13y ago
You could always try making the argument that more people riding means less people driving. Thereby making the roads less crowded for everyone who continues to drive.