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How about instead of stumbling about intellectually like a mob intent on hating the NSA, we set a few things straight: * This is not indicative of Russia as a

How about instead of stumbling about intellectually like a mob intent on hating the NSA, we set a few things straight: * This is not indicative of Russia as a collective endorsing or supporting Snowden. One man residing in Russia, a Russian national, offered Snowden a job relevant to his experience. This article says nothing about the public perception of Snowden in Russia. Anything else is supposition. All he has is asylum and a job. Both things can be granted by a huge minority of people in government, of which we do not yet understand their obscured motivations and agendas. * I don't think we should be praising Russia for this - let's remember Russia is the place where homosexuality is almost scathingly rejected, human rights violations are normal, and freedom of the press is in effect...except when it's not. Yes, they gave Snowden asylum. I wonder what they could gain from that aside from just being a bunch of good guys...come on. This says nothing about the Russian people understanding America's problems, and they are certainly not an ideal to strive towards (nothing against Russians as a people, but a lot of their laws are deplorable by modern standards). * I wouldn't trust the job, and I wouldn't take it. I wouldn't want any solid association with anyone, high-roller or not, who could be leveraged against me. This is paranoid, but whatever is uncertain about the NSA scandal, it's certain the government (or members thereof) is probably desperate to retrieve Snowden. * Again, as I have said repeatedly since this all came out - don't let your outrage at the (vastly exaggerated) NSA scandal prevent you from seeing the truth - as a government agency, the NSA is largely beneficial to our country, and we shouldn't seek to disband it. Rather, we should correct its abuses and continue forward. I clearly see the black and white "us and them" mentality being tosses around with the NSA, Russia, Snowden and the U.S. government in the comment threads here and it's misinformed.

insuffi 13y ago
Please note: 1) U.S. is 32nd in the world when it comes to freedom of the press. 2) U.S. is also pro-torture and quite clearly anti-human rights, with their judicial system being just as corrupt as Russia's, if not more(See: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-judge-receives-28year-jail-term-for-his-role-in--kidsforcash-kickbacks-8598147.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-judge-re...). I can go on and on about Gitmo, overthrowing foreign governments(Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Syria, Gaza strip) et cetera et cetera. U.S. doesn't really have a clean record when it comes to human rights abuses. The only difference is that the U.S. hides behind "Justice!" propaganda and americans believe it, but everybody in eastern europe knows that Putin is quite clearly against democracy, and he doesn't try to hide it. I'm not saying that Russia is better, I'm just saying that it's naive to think that U.S. is much better, with its imperialist politics (Assange/Sweden case and forcing a president's plane to land).
- dylangs1030 13y ago
  Thank you for the citations. I agree with you on all points, my point was simply that Russia is not a superlative example either. Both the U.S. and Russia are locked in a murky political limbo with all sorts of controversies, but neither should be a shining example to the other. Russia has (as other commenters and myself noted elsewhere) historically been against privacy and press freedom when it's inconvenient for them, and has a host of other human rights violations. But you're right, I'm definitely not attacking Russia from a superior position as an American here :)
- jbooth 13y ago
  We didn't throw the Dixie chicks in jail. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pussy_Riot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pussy_Riot I mean, the US has tons of problems and what's really disturbing are the trend lines -- seems like liberty peaked somewhere in the mid 70s with the CIA hearings. But Russia being nicer than the US to US dissidents means nothing -- how do they act towards their own dissidents?
  - insuffi 13y ago
    Agreed. Jailing Pussy Riot was/is definitely a pursuit of political persecution. Well, technically, Russia acted very lawfully in this case - they did not have an extradition treaty with the U.S., and Snowden sought political asylum. I'd like to think that behind the scenes, Putin just enjoyed poking a stick in Obama's eye, but I'm sure he had more rational reasons for resisting the U.S. than just personal pleasure.
zzzeek 13y ago
> This article says nothing about the public perception of Snowden in Russia. Except it does, paragraph eight: > An opinion survey conducted by Russian news agency RIA Novosti shows 51% of Russians back Snowden's decision to leak the NSA information, and 43% were in favor of Russia granting him asylum, according to the Levada Center poll. (edit: i appreciate the position you're defending here, re: reform vs. abolition, and how that is pretty tricky in this environment. the abolitionists here definitely have some tunnel vision issues going on).

insuffi 13y ago

Please note: 1) U.S. is 32nd in the world when it comes to freedom of the press. 2) U.S. is also pro-torture and quite clearly anti-human rights, with their judicial system being just as corrupt as Russia's, if not more(See: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-judge-receives-28year-jail-term-for-his-role-in--kidsforcash-kickbacks-8598147.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-judge-re...). I can go on and on about Gitmo, overthrowing foreign governments(Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Syria, Gaza strip) et cetera et cetera. U.S. doesn't really have a clean record when it comes to human rights abuses. The only difference is that the U.S. hides behind "Justice!" propaganda and americans believe it, but everybody in eastern europe knows that Putin is quite clearly against democracy, and he doesn't try to hide it. I'm not saying that Russia is better, I'm just saying that it's naive to think that U.S. is much better, with its imperialist politics (Assange/Sweden case and forcing a president's plane to land).

dylangs1030 13y ago
Thank you for the citations. I agree with you on all points, my point was simply that Russia is not a superlative example either. Both the U.S. and Russia are locked in a murky political limbo with all sorts of controversies, but neither should be a shining example to the other. Russia has (as other commenters and myself noted elsewhere) historically been against privacy and press freedom when it's inconvenient for them, and has a host of other human rights violations. But you're right, I'm definitely not attacking Russia from a superior position as an American here :)
jbooth 13y ago
We didn't throw the Dixie chicks in jail. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pussy_Riot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pussy_Riot I mean, the US has tons of problems and what's really disturbing are the trend lines -- seems like liberty peaked somewhere in the mid 70s with the CIA hearings. But Russia being nicer than the US to US dissidents means nothing -- how do they act towards their own dissidents?
- insuffi 13y ago
  Agreed. Jailing Pussy Riot was/is definitely a pursuit of political persecution. Well, technically, Russia acted very lawfully in this case - they did not have an extradition treaty with the U.S., and Snowden sought political asylum. I'd like to think that behind the scenes, Putin just enjoyed poking a stick in Obama's eye, but I'm sure he had more rational reasons for resisting the U.S. than just personal pleasure.

zzzeek 13y ago

> This article says nothing about the public perception of Snowden in Russia. Except it does, paragraph eight: > An opinion survey conducted by Russian news agency RIA Novosti shows 51% of Russians back Snowden's decision to leak the NSA information, and 43% were in favor of Russia granting him asylum, according to the Levada Center poll. (edit: i appreciate the position you're defending here, re: reform vs. abolition, and how that is pretty tricky in this environment. the abolitionists here definitely have some tunnel vision issues going on).