3 ms·

What does this mean in practicality?

by joelg236 13y ago

spc476 13y ago
That you have to declare bitcoins received as income to the IRS?
- msgilligan 13y ago
  That was true long before this ruling.
- rayiner 13y ago
  You have to declare anything of value received as income. E.g. if you get paid in shoes, it's still income.
  - sage_joch 13y ago
    This was an insightful comment. I will be declaring it as income in April.
  - unimpressive 13y ago
    Hypothetically if you were payed in shoes, how would you pay the IRS? Sell the shoes for enough money to pay taxes?
    - rayiner 13y ago
      This is actually a problem for some people. E.g. they receive some property (usually a family farm) but can't pay taxes on the value received. There are various complicates and work-arounds in the tax code to deal with this situation, but sometimes they just end up selling the farm.
      - conception 13y ago
        Or they win a bunch of stuff on a gameshow, but can't pay for the taxes on the "income".
      - bratsche 13y ago
        There was a bit on NPR a few months ago about someone who inherited some artwork from a parent who died. There was an extremely valuable piece of art which was made from some something like elephant tusk or something that is banned now, but wasn't when the art was created, and so now it is illegal to sell the piece. The IRS wanted to be paid for the value of the piece, but the people who inherited it were trying to argue that since they're not allowed to sell it it has no value. And I don't think they could just afford out of pocket whatever the IRS was claiming was owed.
        Fuzzwah 13y ago
        I was interested in learning more about this but my googling couldn't turn up anything from NPR. The piece couldn't be sold because it features a stuffed bald eagle (of which sale and even ownership of is prohibited by the 1940 Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act and the 1918 Migratory Bird Treaty Act). I did dig up these: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/arts/design/a-catch-22-of-art-and-taxes-starring-a-stuffed-eagle.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/arts/design/a-catch-22-of-... http://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack/2012/07/22/the-irs-art-advisory-panel-has-its-head-inthe-clouds/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack/2012/07/22/the-irs-a... http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/dont_mess_with_taxes/2012/11/irs-deal-provides-museum-home-for-art-work-no-tax-bill-for-former-owners.html http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/dont_mess_with_taxes/20... The outcome was that they donated to the MoMa, but weren't allowed to claim a tax deduction for the donation. So yeah... kind of screwed.
    - yxhuvud 13y ago
      You pay taxes in dollar, or whatever your local currency happens to be. If your income is not in the same currency, then it is your problem to exchange it.
- hahame 13y ago
  this would be a crushing blow for anyone just playing around with btc. innovation and creativity halted
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
dragonwriter 13y ago
It means that the particular defendant in this particular case can't get out of a securities fraud case because the investment contracts were sold for (and the interest offered in) bitcoins. (As a trial court decision, it has no binding in effect on any other case, and, in any case, the ruling is narrowly written to be specific to the context of the specific law at issue, not the definition of "money" more generally.)

What does this mean in practicality?

spc476 13y ago

That you have to declare bitcoins received as income to the IRS?

msgilligan 13y ago
That was true long before this ruling.
rayiner 13y ago
You have to declare anything of value received as income. E.g. if you get paid in shoes, it's still income.
- sage_joch 13y ago
  This was an insightful comment. I will be declaring it as income in April.
- unimpressive 13y ago
  Hypothetically if you were payed in shoes, how would you pay the IRS? Sell the shoes for enough money to pay taxes?
  - rayiner 13y ago
    This is actually a problem for some people. E.g. they receive some property (usually a family farm) but can't pay taxes on the value received. There are various complicates and work-arounds in the tax code to deal with this situation, but sometimes they just end up selling the farm.
    - conception 13y ago
      Or they win a bunch of stuff on a gameshow, but can't pay for the taxes on the "income".
    - bratsche 13y ago
      There was a bit on NPR a few months ago about someone who inherited some artwork from a parent who died. There was an extremely valuable piece of art which was made from some something like elephant tusk or something that is banned now, but wasn't when the art was created, and so now it is illegal to sell the piece. The IRS wanted to be paid for the value of the piece, but the people who inherited it were trying to argue that since they're not allowed to sell it it has no value. And I don't think they could just afford out of pocket whatever the IRS was claiming was owed.
      - Fuzzwah 13y ago
        I was interested in learning more about this but my googling couldn't turn up anything from NPR. The piece couldn't be sold because it features a stuffed bald eagle (of which sale and even ownership of is prohibited by the 1940 Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act and the 1918 Migratory Bird Treaty Act). I did dig up these: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/arts/design/a-catch-22-of-art-and-taxes-starring-a-stuffed-eagle.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/arts/design/a-catch-22-of-... http://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack/2012/07/22/the-irs-art-advisory-panel-has-its-head-inthe-clouds/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack/2012/07/22/the-irs-a... http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/dont_mess_with_taxes/2012/11/irs-deal-provides-museum-home-for-art-work-no-tax-bill-for-former-owners.html http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/dont_mess_with_taxes/20... The outcome was that they donated to the MoMa, but weren't allowed to claim a tax deduction for the donation. So yeah... kind of screwed.
  - yxhuvud 13y ago
    You pay taxes in dollar, or whatever your local currency happens to be. If your income is not in the same currency, then it is your problem to exchange it.
hahame 13y ago
this would be a crushing blow for anyone just playing around with btc. innovation and creativity halted

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

dragonwriter 13y ago

It means that the particular defendant in this particular case can't get out of a securities fraud case because the investment contracts were sold for (and the interest offered in) bitcoins. (As a trial court decision, it has no binding in effect on any other case, and, in any case, the ruling is narrowly written to be specific to the context of the specific law at issue, not the definition of "money" more generally.)