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I don't see how HECS is a lot better than the US system. "Poor" people still have to pay 10% (accumulated) interest on the loan (it does not matter if the inte

by lysium 13y ago

I don't see how HECS is a lot better than the US system. "Poor" people still have to pay 10% (accumulated) interest on the loan (it does not matter if the interest is called 'discount') and you still leave the system with a loan of $18-30k. If a country wants to advance technologically or academically, it should have cost-free universities like there are cost-free schools. Why do people not understand that?

frogpelt 13y ago
Why do people not understand that many people are poor not because they were born into something less than a utopia but because they are lazy or happy that way or they make bad decisions or are just plain ignorant? Have you once stopped to consider that there may not be anything close to a perfect system for lifting people out of poverty? Perhaps a system that provides possibility that requires loads of effort to take advantage of is the best that can be done. A country simply cannot pay for the aggregation of "necessities" that the populace dreams up.
- lysium 13y ago
  I was not talking about poverty or who's paying what. I'm just saying that putting economic burdens on higher education is not a wise decision for a country that wants to advance technologically or academically. With respect to who's paying what: I think the country has way enough money, the question is "just" on what do you want to spend it.
- wjk 13y ago
  In a lot of first world countries people get PAID to go to university. Expecting 17-18 year old's who finished high school to have tens of thousands of dollars to be able to go to good universities is beyond stupid.
  - frogpelt 13y ago
    You should read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Debt-Free-Outstanding-Education-Scholarships-Mooching/dp/1591842980 http://www.amazon.com/Debt-Free-Outstanding-Education-Schola...
rlanday 13y ago
It’s not clear that that would necessarily lead to better allocation of resources; I’m sure there are some degrees that give people skills to create a lot of value, but right now people can already borrow money to get a degree if they think it’s going to pay off; on the other hand, there’s currently so much societal pressure to go to college, a lot of students spend a lot of time and money on worthless degrees that don’t really help them, or if they do help them, only as a (very slow and inefficient) signaling effect that they’re the type of person that can make it through college. I’m not really sure what problem having the government pay for college tuition would solve. It would probably just exacerbate the current problem of colleges having no incentive to keep costs down as long as people are dead-set on getting a degree regardless of the costs or lack of benefit. I think a better solution than basically throwing fuel on the fire is to educate people about what their options are to help them make sound economic decisions, including different degree options and their value in the job market, and also about options if they choose not to go to college, since a lot of college graduates end up taking jobs they don’t need degrees for. There also needs to be a reversal in the trend of employers requiring college degrees as a form of signaling; I think evidence suggests that college admissions boards aren’t really any better at predicting student success than results from intelligence tests like the SAT. It’s going to be very politically controversial to convince people that a lot of the value associated with having a college degree is actually just in being a smart person, but I think it would make the economy hugely more efficient and save people from having to go to college just to signal their intelligence. Another big part of the solution, for those who do actually need to learn things and earn licenses, is going to be legitimizing and popularizing new forms of education made possible by technology, e.g. MOOCs, and somehow setting more efficient methods of credentialing to go with.
whatusername 13y ago
Does it help that the 10% discount is going away in 6 months time? http://studyassist.gov.au/sites/studyassist/news/pages/changes-to-hecs-help-discounts-and-voluntary-repayment-bonus http://studyassist.gov.au/sites/studyassist/news/pages/chang...
- lysium 13y ago
  You are right, the interest is not the point. The point is You still leave uni with $18-30k debt.

by lysium 13y ago

frogpelt 13y ago

Why do people not understand that many people are poor not because they were born into something less than a utopia but because they are lazy or happy that way or they make bad decisions or are just plain ignorant? Have you once stopped to consider that there may not be anything close to a perfect system for lifting people out of poverty? Perhaps a system that provides possibility that requires loads of effort to take advantage of is the best that can be done. A country simply cannot pay for the aggregation of "necessities" that the populace dreams up.

lysium 13y ago
I was not talking about poverty or who's paying what. I'm just saying that putting economic burdens on higher education is not a wise decision for a country that wants to advance technologically or academically. With respect to who's paying what: I think the country has way enough money, the question is "just" on what do you want to spend it.
wjk 13y ago
In a lot of first world countries people get PAID to go to university. Expecting 17-18 year old's who finished high school to have tens of thousands of dollars to be able to go to good universities is beyond stupid.
- frogpelt 13y ago
  You should read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Debt-Free-Outstanding-Education-Scholarships-Mooching/dp/1591842980 http://www.amazon.com/Debt-Free-Outstanding-Education-Schola...

rlanday 13y ago

It’s not clear that that would necessarily lead to better allocation of resources; I’m sure there are some degrees that give people skills to create a lot of value, but right now people can already borrow money to get a degree if they think it’s going to pay off; on the other hand, there’s currently so much societal pressure to go to college, a lot of students spend a lot of time and money on worthless degrees that don’t really help them, or if they do help them, only as a (very slow and inefficient) signaling effect that they’re the type of person that can make it through college. I’m not really sure what problem having the government pay for college tuition would solve. It would probably just exacerbate the current problem of colleges having no incentive to keep costs down as long as people are dead-set on getting a degree regardless of the costs or lack of benefit. I think a better solution than basically throwing fuel on the fire is to educate people about what their options are to help them make sound economic decisions, including different degree options and their value in the job market, and also about options if they choose not to go to college, since a lot of college graduates end up taking jobs they don’t need degrees for. There also needs to be a reversal in the trend of employers requiring college degrees as a form of signaling; I think evidence suggests that college admissions boards aren’t really any better at predicting student success than results from intelligence tests like the SAT. It’s going to be very politically controversial to convince people that a lot of the value associated with having a college degree is actually just in being a smart person, but I think it would make the economy hugely more efficient and save people from having to go to college just to signal their intelligence. Another big part of the solution, for those who do actually need to learn things and earn licenses, is going to be legitimizing and popularizing new forms of education made possible by technology, e.g. MOOCs, and somehow setting more efficient methods of credentialing to go with.

whatusername 13y ago

Does it help that the 10% discount is going away in 6 months time? http://studyassist.gov.au/sites/studyassist/news/pages/changes-to-hecs-help-discounts-and-voluntary-repayment-bonus http://studyassist.gov.au/sites/studyassist/news/pages/chang...

lysium 13y ago
You are right, the interest is not the point. The point is You still leave uni with $18-30k debt.