8 ms·

It likely is fruit of the poisoned tree. That's why they've been ordering everyone to cover it up.

by LoganCale 13y ago

smokeyj 13y ago
I wonder what happens to inmates who discover they were prosecuted with illegal evidence.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  They get to file appeals, and they do. Such appeals have a fairly decent chance of success, although I don't have numbers to hand.
  - falk 13y ago
    How are they supposed to know if parallel construction was used in their case or not?
    - ToothlessJake 13y ago
      They are not supposed to know, the government is attempting to cover up it's crimes again[1] until it can work out immunity and monetary compensation for the actors involved[2]. [1] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cia-chief-wanted-in-italy-for-rendition-on-his-way-back-to-us-8721235.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cia-chief-w... [2] http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/10/supreme-court-telecoms-win-immunity http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/10/supreme... Edit: To the user below, this is various arms of the government passing around information amongst it's branches to avoid accountability and exposure as much as possible. Rather monolithic. Keep the ready made mantras out of this please.
      - anigbrowl 13y ago
        For the nth time, government is not monolithic. It's misleading (mainly of yourself) to operate on the basis that it is.
        deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
        smokeyj 13y ago
        > For the nth time, government is not monolithic In what sense? A government is a monopoly on violence. I find monopolies to be monolithic.
        krapp 13y ago
        Government is not monolithic in the sense that (at least in the US) its sheer size and complexity prevents all the actors involved from correlating their actions and ideologies into a single conspiratorial entity like swallows in flight. Not even in regards to tyranny and violence.
        flumbaps 13y ago
        Large and complex systems can coordinate in a decentralised way to form a monolithic entity. Local interactions can lead to global convergence. Swallows in flight is a good example - each swallow only pays attention to the others nearby, yet the whole flock is coordinated. I'm not saying that is how it is in the US government. However, the closer the agencies work together, the more monolithic the government is likely to be (otherwise they wouldn't be able to cooperate).
        anigbrowl 13y ago
        It's not so much that I'm popular as that I've had this conversation numerous times before, and I sometimes get lazy about laying out my arguments over again, like now. In brief, I direct you to the second graph at this link as an explanation of why I link Reagan's name with prohibition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate#Causes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rat... I didn't mention Nixon because for all his rhetoric his policies were pretty pragmatic, and he considered drug abuse at least partly a public health issue (as evidenced by his decisions). Reagan ran as a straight-up moralist and while I agree he'd probably be appalled at the militarization of police and abuses of power like this 'parallel construction' the DEA has been engaging in, this doesn't seem to have filtered through to his supporters. On the one hand he's portrayed as a selfless individual of almost god-like sagacity (I know this because I have ended up on the mailing lists of various conservative organizations, and this time of year I am the perplexed recipient of various Reagan calendars and suchlike), on the other he's almost invariably invoked in political debates in order to terminate discussion rather than broaden it.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      They aren't. The point of parallel construction is to ensure that they cannot.

It likely is fruit of the poisoned tree. That's why they've been ordering everyone to cover it up.

smokeyj 13y ago

I wonder what happens to inmates who discover they were prosecuted with illegal evidence.

anigbrowl 13y ago
They get to file appeals, and they do. Such appeals have a fairly decent chance of success, although I don't have numbers to hand.
- falk 13y ago
  How are they supposed to know if parallel construction was used in their case or not?
  - ToothlessJake 13y ago
    They are not supposed to know, the government is attempting to cover up it's crimes again[1] until it can work out immunity and monetary compensation for the actors involved[2]. [1] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cia-chief-wanted-in-italy-for-rendition-on-his-way-back-to-us-8721235.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cia-chief-w... [2] http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/10/supreme-court-telecoms-win-immunity http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/10/supreme... Edit: To the user below, this is various arms of the government passing around information amongst it's branches to avoid accountability and exposure as much as possible. Rather monolithic. Keep the ready made mantras out of this please.
    - anigbrowl 13y ago
      For the nth time, government is not monolithic. It's misleading (mainly of yourself) to operate on the basis that it is.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
      - smokeyj 13y ago
        > For the nth time, government is not monolithic In what sense? A government is a monopoly on violence. I find monopolies to be monolithic.
        krapp 13y ago
        Government is not monolithic in the sense that (at least in the US) its sheer size and complexity prevents all the actors involved from correlating their actions and ideologies into a single conspiratorial entity like swallows in flight. Not even in regards to tyranny and violence.
        flumbaps 13y ago
        Large and complex systems can coordinate in a decentralised way to form a monolithic entity. Local interactions can lead to global convergence. Swallows in flight is a good example - each swallow only pays attention to the others nearby, yet the whole flock is coordinated. I'm not saying that is how it is in the US government. However, the closer the agencies work together, the more monolithic the government is likely to be (otherwise they wouldn't be able to cooperate).
        anigbrowl 13y ago
        It's not so much that I'm popular as that I've had this conversation numerous times before, and I sometimes get lazy about laying out my arguments over again, like now. In brief, I direct you to the second graph at this link as an explanation of why I link Reagan's name with prohibition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate#Causes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rat... I didn't mention Nixon because for all his rhetoric his policies were pretty pragmatic, and he considered drug abuse at least partly a public health issue (as evidenced by his decisions). Reagan ran as a straight-up moralist and while I agree he'd probably be appalled at the militarization of police and abuses of power like this 'parallel construction' the DEA has been engaging in, this doesn't seem to have filtered through to his supporters. On the one hand he's portrayed as a selfless individual of almost god-like sagacity (I know this because I have ended up on the mailing lists of various conservative organizations, and this time of year I am the perplexed recipient of various Reagan calendars and suchlike), on the other he's almost invariably invoked in political debates in order to terminate discussion rather than broaden it.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    They aren't. The point of parallel construction is to ensure that they cannot.