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Across this country, this very month, legions of rubes will be getting low-interest student loans to enroll in psychology, general studies, and undecided major

Across this country, this very month, legions of rubes will be getting low-interest student loans to enroll in psychology, general studies, and undecided major degree programs, paying $40k per year, only to drop out shortly thereafter with a huge financial hangover and little ability to pay for it. In contrast, an electrical engineering degree will easily pay for itself, particularly if you've managed to bootstrap yourself to a third year. Why haven't you addressed student loans as a vector for finishing a highly lucrative degree program? Seems like you are (forgive the term) a poster child for student loans.

HarryHirsch 13y ago
You say with great conviction that EE is the way to go, but with the world being what is is, who can predict the future these days? In the early 2000s a degree in chemistry was considered a safe bet, especially with a biochemistry PhD tacked on. Then there was the 2008 recession, the great round of layoffs at the major pharmcos, combined with the offshoring of early discovery. If anyone says they feel cheated I'm not going to disagree. I'm not going to use the word "rube", and neither should you! At the moment medical school is what the kids at my university are shooting for, that used to be the ticket into a safe career, but one thing is clear: healthcare in this country is in need of reform. I cannot say how it is going to look, but I will not say that taking out five-digit loans for medical school is a good idea. And who can tell about EE? If they offshored chemistry they will offshore design. It's going to happen, the pharmaceutical industry has provided the blueprint.
- carlosdp 13y ago
  Dude, you went through like 5 different unrelated issues there o_o. But to your first point, the original commenter was stating that EE is a safe bet now, and therefore will likely be in 2 years when the OP graduates.
  - HarryHirsch 13y ago
    Just wait until he gets Pfizered. At least all the experienced Med. Chemists that Pfizer let go since 2008 had ample time to pay off their student loans, nevermind that when they got their degrees 20 years ago it was actually possible to work one's way through school.
  - iyulaev 13y ago
    "Just wait until he gets Pfizered." On a long enough time scale, everyone will get "Pfizered." What makes you think this is likely to happen soon? Genuinely curious, as a practicing (sort of) EE.
    - HarryHirsch 13y ago
      I'm looking at Albany Molecular. That is a contract shop in Albany, NY. Ten years ago they were still doing contract work there, and they advertising themselves as being in Albany. That was the downside, but the upside was that cost-of-living in Upstate NY is low. Nowadays the work is done in Hydarabad, Shanghai and Hungary, and what is left stateside is supervisory work. I think we are seeing a trend in EE towards contract shops. The only thing that's yet missing is for the contract work to be done overseas.
      - randomdata 13y ago
        In fact, I seem to recall some recent articles about the EE profession showing growing concern about the increasing unemployment rate in the industry. It is still quite low, especially compared to the national average, but perhaps is indicative of a trend?
- stevewilhelm 13y ago
  The US Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics publishes an Occupational Outlook Handbook. [1] It includes projected number of new jobs this decade and projected growth rate per career. [1] http://www.bls.gov/ooh/ http://www.bls.gov/ooh/
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charliepinglass 13y ago
You can't borrow enough to pay for tuition at many schools using federal loans as an undergraduate student. Stafford loans have a maximum borrowing limit of $12,500 per year, and 4% of that goes to origination fees, leaving $12,000 for tuition, less if you're a freshman or sophomore: http://studentaid.ed.gov/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized#how-much-can-i-borrow http://studentaid.ed.gov/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized... That's not enough for many state schools, and definitely not enough for private schools: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/eng-rankings http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-gradu... The only way to get private loans is to have a creditworthy cosigner. Otherwise, you need parents to take out Parent PLUS loans to cover the remainder. I assume the person here was paying for tuition with a combination of school-provided need-based grants and Stafford loans. Now that the need-based aid has been cut because her Expected Family Contribution has gone up due to her paid internship, she can no longer get enough money to pay the full tuition.
- mchannon 13y ago
  There are also dozens of scholarship programs that, when I was in college, I didn't qualify for because I didn't look like the OP. A lot of them are only for upperclassmen, and a lot of them are only for STEM disciplines. It may be too late to apply and get such things but I didn't read of any effort to track those down. Finding scholarships, even qty 10 of $500 apiece requiring 3 hours' work each, should be easier with this backstory than any other I've ever read.

HarryHirsch 13y ago

You say with great conviction that EE is the way to go, but with the world being what is is, who can predict the future these days? In the early 2000s a degree in chemistry was considered a safe bet, especially with a biochemistry PhD tacked on. Then there was the 2008 recession, the great round of layoffs at the major pharmcos, combined with the offshoring of early discovery. If anyone says they feel cheated I'm not going to disagree. I'm not going to use the word "rube", and neither should you! At the moment medical school is what the kids at my university are shooting for, that used to be the ticket into a safe career, but one thing is clear: healthcare in this country is in need of reform. I cannot say how it is going to look, but I will not say that taking out five-digit loans for medical school is a good idea. And who can tell about EE? If they offshored chemistry they will offshore design. It's going to happen, the pharmaceutical industry has provided the blueprint.

carlosdp 13y ago
Dude, you went through like 5 different unrelated issues there o_o. But to your first point, the original commenter was stating that EE is a safe bet now, and therefore will likely be in 2 years when the OP graduates.
- HarryHirsch 13y ago
  Just wait until he gets Pfizered. At least all the experienced Med. Chemists that Pfizer let go since 2008 had ample time to pay off their student loans, nevermind that when they got their degrees 20 years ago it was actually possible to work one's way through school.
- iyulaev 13y ago
  "Just wait until he gets Pfizered." On a long enough time scale, everyone will get "Pfizered." What makes you think this is likely to happen soon? Genuinely curious, as a practicing (sort of) EE.
  - HarryHirsch 13y ago
    I'm looking at Albany Molecular. That is a contract shop in Albany, NY. Ten years ago they were still doing contract work there, and they advertising themselves as being in Albany. That was the downside, but the upside was that cost-of-living in Upstate NY is low. Nowadays the work is done in Hydarabad, Shanghai and Hungary, and what is left stateside is supervisory work. I think we are seeing a trend in EE towards contract shops. The only thing that's yet missing is for the contract work to be done overseas.
    - randomdata 13y ago
      In fact, I seem to recall some recent articles about the EE profession showing growing concern about the increasing unemployment rate in the industry. It is still quite low, especially compared to the national average, but perhaps is indicative of a trend?
stevewilhelm 13y ago
The US Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics publishes an Occupational Outlook Handbook. [1] It includes projected number of new jobs this decade and projected growth rate per career. [1] http://www.bls.gov/ooh/ http://www.bls.gov/ooh/
- deleted 13y ago
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deleted 13y ago
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charliepinglass 13y ago

You can't borrow enough to pay for tuition at many schools using federal loans as an undergraduate student. Stafford loans have a maximum borrowing limit of $12,500 per year, and 4% of that goes to origination fees, leaving $12,000 for tuition, less if you're a freshman or sophomore: http://studentaid.ed.gov/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized#how-much-can-i-borrow http://studentaid.ed.gov/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized... That's not enough for many state schools, and definitely not enough for private schools: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/eng-rankings http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-gradu... The only way to get private loans is to have a creditworthy cosigner. Otherwise, you need parents to take out Parent PLUS loans to cover the remainder. I assume the person here was paying for tuition with a combination of school-provided need-based grants and Stafford loans. Now that the need-based aid has been cut because her Expected Family Contribution has gone up due to her paid internship, she can no longer get enough money to pay the full tuition.

mchannon 13y ago
There are also dozens of scholarship programs that, when I was in college, I didn't qualify for because I didn't look like the OP. A lot of them are only for upperclassmen, and a lot of them are only for STEM disciplines. It may be too late to apply and get such things but I didn't read of any effort to track those down. Finding scholarships, even qty 10 of $500 apiece requiring 3 hours' work each, should be easier with this backstory than any other I've ever read.