4 ms·

Fortunately operating systems on laptops and mobile devices all adjust timezones automatically whenever they connect to the internet. My laptop has never chang

by tjoff 13y ago

Fortunately operating systems on laptops and mobile devices all adjust timezones automatically whenever they connect to the internet. My laptop has never changed timezone automatically. And that is a feature in my eyes. How can you assume that just because I'm doing a weekend trip that I want my whole life to be centered around the timezone in that particular place?

crazygringo 13y ago
Most people want their clocks to be correct, local time, including their laptop clock. It's a better assumption to make for most people. Of course, it can always be turned off for others, like yourself! :)
- tjoff 13y ago
  Citation needed. I'd say that a vast minority (that actually cares) wouldn't want the OS to change the timezone behind their back on a laptop. On a phone (which also acts as a wrist watch for most people), yes. Laptop, just no. What OS does this? And how?
  - crazygringo 13y ago
    OSX for sure. "Set time zone automatically using current location". Checkbox inside system preferences. I think it's pretty safe to say most people want their laptop's clock to match their local time, because how is a wrong clock useful? Of course, if you're travelling for business with complicated schedules and meetings in home times, you clearly might have different needs, but most people just want their clocks to be right. And you certainly don't want to keep your original timezone but change the clock setting -- then just everything's wrong! :)
    - tjoff 13y ago
      On my laptop, any time that isn't the current time in my hometown is the wrong time. And it is moronic for the OS to do this change behind my back (I don't know how OS X present this but thankfully Windows 7 doesn't do this madness by default). How do I know that my OS got the time right? (did it perhaps get the time from my VPN location? was the network I connected to badly configured?) Since a laptop isn't connected to the net at all times I also have to consciously be aware of whether I've even been connected yet in this particular time zone.
      - FireBeyond 13y ago
        I feel that you are taking a narrow-minded, absolutist view here. "How do I know that my OS got the time right?" Well, have a look. I've often changed the DST switch manually after noting it not being correct. It wasn't then overridden by the OS "knowing better".
        tjoff 13y ago
        Why should I have to "have a look". If I know that the time zone is always the one from my hometown I never have to look or worry about it being wrong. I'd rather calculate the time difference in my head (or take a look on my watch/phone) than "have a look". So, I have never ever (after the OS installation) changed the time zone for any of my computers and knowing that the OS doesn't do this behind my back I've never had to look or worry about it. But even if it were perfect, why would you want your laptop to reflect the time zone you are currently in? Shouldn't the time on your laptop be the time you are the most familiar with and that you most deal with? For your day-to-day needs you have your phone and/or watch anyway, if anything a reference to the home time would be preferable instead of having all devices say the same thing.
      - testbro 13y ago
        In one out of the one trials I've expected OSX to automatically set the clock ("automatically change time zone") it hasn't. This touches on to the relevant point of DST. I no longer have to worry about changing clocks; the worry has been replaced by the confusion over whether all my clocks have changed or none have. At a bare minimum I'd expect any change of time zone to prompt the user.
        tjoff 13y ago
        Yes, DST is a pain as well (and completely unnecessary, just ditch DST already). Especially when you set the alarm for the next morning - and you know that DST kicks in but you have no way of knowing whether your phone knows that. And you can't change time beforehand because you don't know whether the phone will respect that or change the time back or make the change twice... I found out that the stock android alarm app solves this (somewhat), when an alarm is set a notification tells you how many hours (and minutes) remain until the alarm goes off and this takes DST changes into account so you can see that it got it right. Apple has succeeded in getting this wrong several years in row with the iPhone, quite embarrassing - and made much worse by the fact that you as a user can not prepare for it.
  - FireBeyond 13y ago
    Citation needed yourself. For the claim that people with devices that show the time actively and largely don't want the time to reflect the location's timezone. Phone, yes. Laptop, yes. Times are still stored internally, and the timezone represents a localization. And if I go across the world for the weekend I see that locally, it is UTC+10, while entries in a DB are timestamped accordingly. Then I return home and I can look at the clock in my menu bar and see my local UTC-8, and all the while entries in a DB are timestamped accordingly. I'd love to hear your use case for "if location and correct timezone can be reliably determined, it still should not be adjusted".
    - pessimizer 13y ago
      He's claiming that the number of people that don't want their time automatically change on their laptops is not insignificant. You really need a citation for that?
      - FireBeyond 13y ago
        I do. One presumes that Microsoft, Apple and other major OS developers did exhaustive UX studies, and that this - "determine my location and set the timezone representation of the clock to that local time, rather than the original" - wasn't something that a significant portion of people felt. Why do I say this? There are very few use cases I can think of - though I'm happy to be educated otherwise - for doing this differently. In addition, Outlook and Calendar on my Mac both pick up TZ changes and automatically re-render my calendar appropriately. I really struggle to picture a use case of "I fly from my home in Seattle back to Australia, and yet I want the clock on my menu bar to display a wall-time 18 hours behind my current location, rather than displaying the current time where my eyeballs are at, and changing back upon return". Actually, I can think of one - the fear that poorly programmed or tested applications may handle this incorrectly. In which case I can understand this desire, even as a facet of "solving the wrong problem"/shooting the messenger.
        CamperBob2 13y ago
        One presumes that Microsoft, Apple and other major OS developers did exhaustive UX studies, and that this - "determine my location and set the timezone representation of the clock to that local time, rather than the original" - wasn't something that a significant portion of people felt. Would these be the same studies that Microsoft cites to justify force-feeding Metro to desktop users?
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- mhurron 13y ago
  Indeed I do want it to be correct. Geolocation of IP's has placed me all over the country while I sit at my desk. My desk doesn't move. You can reliably tell where a cell phone is by the tower it connects to, guessing by IP is nowhere near as accurate.

by tjoff 13y ago

crazygringo 13y ago

Most people want their clocks to be correct, local time, including their laptop clock. It's a better assumption to make for most people. Of course, it can always be turned off for others, like yourself! :)

tjoff 13y ago
Citation needed. I'd say that a vast minority (that actually cares) wouldn't want the OS to change the timezone behind their back on a laptop. On a phone (which also acts as a wrist watch for most people), yes. Laptop, just no. What OS does this? And how?
- crazygringo 13y ago
  OSX for sure. "Set time zone automatically using current location". Checkbox inside system preferences. I think it's pretty safe to say most people want their laptop's clock to match their local time, because how is a wrong clock useful? Of course, if you're travelling for business with complicated schedules and meetings in home times, you clearly might have different needs, but most people just want their clocks to be right. And you certainly don't want to keep your original timezone but change the clock setting -- then just everything's wrong! :)
  - tjoff 13y ago
    On my laptop, any time that isn't the current time in my hometown is the wrong time. And it is moronic for the OS to do this change behind my back (I don't know how OS X present this but thankfully Windows 7 doesn't do this madness by default). How do I know that my OS got the time right? (did it perhaps get the time from my VPN location? was the network I connected to badly configured?) Since a laptop isn't connected to the net at all times I also have to consciously be aware of whether I've even been connected yet in this particular time zone.
    - FireBeyond 13y ago
      I feel that you are taking a narrow-minded, absolutist view here. "How do I know that my OS got the time right?" Well, have a look. I've often changed the DST switch manually after noting it not being correct. It wasn't then overridden by the OS "knowing better".
      - tjoff 13y ago
        Why should I have to "have a look". If I know that the time zone is always the one from my hometown I never have to look or worry about it being wrong. I'd rather calculate the time difference in my head (or take a look on my watch/phone) than "have a look". So, I have never ever (after the OS installation) changed the time zone for any of my computers and knowing that the OS doesn't do this behind my back I've never had to look or worry about it. But even if it were perfect, why would you want your laptop to reflect the time zone you are currently in? Shouldn't the time on your laptop be the time you are the most familiar with and that you most deal with? For your day-to-day needs you have your phone and/or watch anyway, if anything a reference to the home time would be preferable instead of having all devices say the same thing.
    - testbro 13y ago
      In one out of the one trials I've expected OSX to automatically set the clock ("automatically change time zone") it hasn't. This touches on to the relevant point of DST. I no longer have to worry about changing clocks; the worry has been replaced by the confusion over whether all my clocks have changed or none have. At a bare minimum I'd expect any change of time zone to prompt the user.
      - tjoff 13y ago
        Yes, DST is a pain as well (and completely unnecessary, just ditch DST already). Especially when you set the alarm for the next morning - and you know that DST kicks in but you have no way of knowing whether your phone knows that. And you can't change time beforehand because you don't know whether the phone will respect that or change the time back or make the change twice... I found out that the stock android alarm app solves this (somewhat), when an alarm is set a notification tells you how many hours (and minutes) remain until the alarm goes off and this takes DST changes into account so you can see that it got it right. Apple has succeeded in getting this wrong several years in row with the iPhone, quite embarrassing - and made much worse by the fact that you as a user can not prepare for it.
- FireBeyond 13y ago
  Citation needed yourself. For the claim that people with devices that show the time actively and largely don't want the time to reflect the location's timezone. Phone, yes. Laptop, yes. Times are still stored internally, and the timezone represents a localization. And if I go across the world for the weekend I see that locally, it is UTC+10, while entries in a DB are timestamped accordingly. Then I return home and I can look at the clock in my menu bar and see my local UTC-8, and all the while entries in a DB are timestamped accordingly. I'd love to hear your use case for "if location and correct timezone can be reliably determined, it still should not be adjusted".
  - pessimizer 13y ago
    He's claiming that the number of people that don't want their time automatically change on their laptops is not insignificant. You really need a citation for that?
    - FireBeyond 13y ago
      I do. One presumes that Microsoft, Apple and other major OS developers did exhaustive UX studies, and that this - "determine my location and set the timezone representation of the clock to that local time, rather than the original" - wasn't something that a significant portion of people felt. Why do I say this? There are very few use cases I can think of - though I'm happy to be educated otherwise - for doing this differently. In addition, Outlook and Calendar on my Mac both pick up TZ changes and automatically re-render my calendar appropriately. I really struggle to picture a use case of "I fly from my home in Seattle back to Australia, and yet I want the clock on my menu bar to display a wall-time 18 hours behind my current location, rather than displaying the current time where my eyeballs are at, and changing back upon return". Actually, I can think of one - the fear that poorly programmed or tested applications may handle this incorrectly. In which case I can understand this desire, even as a facet of "solving the wrong problem"/shooting the messenger.
      - CamperBob2 13y ago
        One presumes that Microsoft, Apple and other major OS developers did exhaustive UX studies, and that this - "determine my location and set the timezone representation of the clock to that local time, rather than the original" - wasn't something that a significant portion of people felt. Would these be the same studies that Microsoft cites to justify force-feeding Metro to desktop users?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
mhurron 13y ago
Indeed I do want it to be correct. Geolocation of IP's has placed me all over the country while I sit at my desk. My desk doesn't move. You can reliably tell where a cell phone is by the tower it connects to, guessing by IP is nowhere near as accurate.