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* Who would make a career move based on free food* Well, all the people I've ever worked with need to eat. If food is provided free (and it's edible), this se

by brk 17y ago

* Who would make a career move based on free food* Well, all the people I've ever worked with need to eat. If food is provided free (and it's edible), this seems like a perk with a direct measurable benefit.

amichail 17y ago
The actual work involved should be infinitely more important than any perk.
- apu 17y ago
  infinity is a very large multiplier
- seekely 17y ago
  When looking for a job, the work from multiple companies can all seem just as enticing. If I'm going to be happy working at any one of the companies, good perks can put one ahead of the other. And besides, if the perks are outstanding enough, what is wrong with taking a job where the work isn't the most important factor in your choice to be there? For many, jobs are just a means to provide for their needs and wants in life. Not a place to spend their creative energy or brain power. They save those for the rest of their more enjoyable life activities. Note: I personally have to work at a place where the work is interesting or I'll go nuts. Work is important to me and is a form of expression. But it's not like that for everyone.
aichcon 17y ago
There's no such thing as a free lunch (or dinner or breakfast) - these costs are factored into salaries.
- bigbang 17y ago
  And providing free breakfast,lunch and dinner would force people to stay longer at work. Ofcourse its thier choice, but its not easy for an average human to refuse something "free":) By providing a meal worth, Google can get atleast 1-2 hours extra work hours from an employee.
  - Tamerlin 17y ago
    Which is exactly the wrong attitude. Any company that emphasizes how long the employees are working in this industry is clearly misguided. The correct goal should be how much is the employee accomplishing, not how long his ass is stuck in that seat.
- cma 17y ago
  Does the employer write off the lunches, etc. as an expense? Does the employee have to pay taxes on the cost of the food, preparation space, etc.? If yes to the first and no to the second, sounds very much like a (partially) free lunch to me.
  - jjs 17y ago
    What's to prevent the company form writing off the perk and counting it against the employee's "real" salary?
    - jrockway 17y ago
      What prevents that? "The market." If your employees start feeling like you are fucking them over, they are just going to leave.
      - jjs 17y ago
        There is indeed often a mismatch between how the company feels a given benefit should be valued by the employee and how the employee actually values it. Complicating matters is the fact that the company wants to provide benefits that provide greater utility to the employee than the cost to the company, but smart employees will take that into account.
    - anamax 17y ago
      If "food" is a line-item on the paycheck stub, it's not free. If it's not a line-item, the only way to count it against salary is to have line items that don't add up, which falls under the category of "my paycheck is wrong".
      - jjs 17y ago
        By "real" salary, I mean the notional salary that the company would have to pay were it not providing benefits.
        17y ago
bmj 17y ago
I think it's already been discussed here, but perhaps some people are realizing that such perks are The Company's way of saying "see, you don't ever need to go home." When you can eat, exercise, play, and get your laundry done at the office, suddenly you have four less reasons to leave the office at a reasonable hour.
- brk 17y ago
  Having worked at more than one place that has offered "free" food, beer, and other perks, this attitude is usually not the case. Many times, even in a down economy, these things are truly offered as perks to try to lure good employees away from other jobs. Often times you can only go so far with pure salary because if you start to get compensation packages that are too much above "market" then you get many questions from your board and stockholders. But, paying a 5% premium over market salary AND offering perks like freebies, you can attract good candidates without making your direct headcount numbers look so high.
  - evgen 17y ago
    While the perks themselves are probably not offered specifically to keep employees in the office, you can be absolutely certain that the selection of perks offered were chosen because they are considered options that increase productivity (or at least keep people in the office.) Having participated in the selection of such freebies at two companies I can assure you that everyone involved knew which options cut down on the churn rate in the parking lot...
    - brk 17y ago
      you can be absolutely certain I would be careful with the declarative statements. My direct experience is quite different: Company U: late 90's/early 2K's startup. Free food was selected primarily on the basis of the cheapest stuff we could get for $1000/mo at the local discount club. If $50 steaks would have made developers work 24/7 they would have still been outside of the budget. Company H: Selection primarily based on what employees asked the Kitchen managers to stock. If you wanted free-range organic tofu breakfast bars, you got them (provided the price was at least semi-reasonable). Company S: (My wife is the director of finance here, I know enough about the selection criteria although I've never been a direct employee) Primarily cost/budget driven as well. None of my experiences have ever involved people who consciously plot after-hours retention ratios of various foods. It has pretty much always been a recognition along the lines of "if people want to stay at work, it's cheaper to feed them than pay them to make them feel valued". No one had ever been coerced into working more just because of these kinds of perks. --------------------------- BTW, to the comment below (HN seems to limit the level of replys), I just came across some unused TicketMaster gift certificates this weekend from another company. There was a monthly raffle for these tickets and other "out of the office" local goings-on...
iigs 17y ago
I agree with you. The place that I work does not have a cafeteria with food (modulo vending machines), and not only would it be "neat" to get free food, I find myself frequently going to one of the closest restaurants and getting the same thing I always get. I've precomputed what I want for lunch and just want to get back to what I was working on. If I had a cafeteria with food I could precompute a lunch from there and increase my job satisfaction by not breaking my focus. Also, I disagree about a cafeteria milking an extra hour out of employees. It's entirely fair to give them so many hours per day and reap the benefits of them stacking the time together more efficiently for both of us. In other words, barring some other commitment I have no problem going home after 8 hours of work, even if that's at 4:00 instead of 5:00. Negotiating that with your boss is orthogonal to where you go to lunch and who pays for it.

by brk 17y ago

amichail 17y ago

The actual work involved should be infinitely more important than any perk.

apu 17y ago
infinity is a very large multiplier
seekely 17y ago
When looking for a job, the work from multiple companies can all seem just as enticing. If I'm going to be happy working at any one of the companies, good perks can put one ahead of the other. And besides, if the perks are outstanding enough, what is wrong with taking a job where the work isn't the most important factor in your choice to be there? For many, jobs are just a means to provide for their needs and wants in life. Not a place to spend their creative energy or brain power. They save those for the rest of their more enjoyable life activities. Note: I personally have to work at a place where the work is interesting or I'll go nuts. Work is important to me and is a form of expression. But it's not like that for everyone.

aichcon 17y ago

There's no such thing as a free lunch (or dinner or breakfast) - these costs are factored into salaries.

bigbang 17y ago
And providing free breakfast,lunch and dinner would force people to stay longer at work. Ofcourse its thier choice, but its not easy for an average human to refuse something "free":) By providing a meal worth, Google can get atleast 1-2 hours extra work hours from an employee.
- Tamerlin 17y ago
  Which is exactly the wrong attitude. Any company that emphasizes how long the employees are working in this industry is clearly misguided. The correct goal should be how much is the employee accomplishing, not how long his ass is stuck in that seat.
cma 17y ago
Does the employer write off the lunches, etc. as an expense? Does the employee have to pay taxes on the cost of the food, preparation space, etc.? If yes to the first and no to the second, sounds very much like a (partially) free lunch to me.
- jjs 17y ago
  What's to prevent the company form writing off the perk and counting it against the employee's "real" salary?
  - jrockway 17y ago
    What prevents that? "The market." If your employees start feeling like you are fucking them over, they are just going to leave.
    - jjs 17y ago
      There is indeed often a mismatch between how the company feels a given benefit should be valued by the employee and how the employee actually values it. Complicating matters is the fact that the company wants to provide benefits that provide greater utility to the employee than the cost to the company, but smart employees will take that into account.
  - anamax 17y ago
    If "food" is a line-item on the paycheck stub, it's not free. If it's not a line-item, the only way to count it against salary is to have line items that don't add up, which falls under the category of "my paycheck is wrong".
    - jjs 17y ago
      By "real" salary, I mean the notional salary that the company would have to pay were it not providing benefits.
      - 17y ago

bmj 17y ago

I think it's already been discussed here, but perhaps some people are realizing that such perks are The Company's way of saying "see, you don't ever need to go home." When you can eat, exercise, play, and get your laundry done at the office, suddenly you have four less reasons to leave the office at a reasonable hour.

brk 17y ago
Having worked at more than one place that has offered "free" food, beer, and other perks, this attitude is usually not the case. Many times, even in a down economy, these things are truly offered as perks to try to lure good employees away from other jobs. Often times you can only go so far with pure salary because if you start to get compensation packages that are too much above "market" then you get many questions from your board and stockholders. But, paying a 5% premium over market salary AND offering perks like freebies, you can attract good candidates without making your direct headcount numbers look so high.
- evgen 17y ago
  While the perks themselves are probably not offered specifically to keep employees in the office, you can be absolutely certain that the selection of perks offered were chosen because they are considered options that increase productivity (or at least keep people in the office.) Having participated in the selection of such freebies at two companies I can assure you that everyone involved knew which options cut down on the churn rate in the parking lot...
  - brk 17y ago
    you can be absolutely certain I would be careful with the declarative statements. My direct experience is quite different: Company U: late 90's/early 2K's startup. Free food was selected primarily on the basis of the cheapest stuff we could get for $1000/mo at the local discount club. If $50 steaks would have made developers work 24/7 they would have still been outside of the budget. Company H: Selection primarily based on what employees asked the Kitchen managers to stock. If you wanted free-range organic tofu breakfast bars, you got them (provided the price was at least semi-reasonable). Company S: (My wife is the director of finance here, I know enough about the selection criteria although I've never been a direct employee) Primarily cost/budget driven as well. None of my experiences have ever involved people who consciously plot after-hours retention ratios of various foods. It has pretty much always been a recognition along the lines of "if people want to stay at work, it's cheaper to feed them than pay them to make them feel valued". No one had ever been coerced into working more just because of these kinds of perks. --------------------------- BTW, to the comment below (HN seems to limit the level of replys), I just came across some unused TicketMaster gift certificates this weekend from another company. There was a monthly raffle for these tickets and other "out of the office" local goings-on...

iigs 17y ago

I agree with you. The place that I work does not have a cafeteria with food (modulo vending machines), and not only would it be "neat" to get free food, I find myself frequently going to one of the closest restaurants and getting the same thing I always get. I've precomputed what I want for lunch and just want to get back to what I was working on. If I had a cafeteria with food I could precompute a lunch from there and increase my job satisfaction by not breaking my focus. Also, I disagree about a cafeteria milking an extra hour out of employees. It's entirely fair to give them so many hours per day and reap the benefits of them stacking the time together more efficiently for both of us. In other words, barring some other commitment I have no problem going home after 8 hours of work, even if that's at 4:00 instead of 5:00. Negotiating that with your boss is orthogonal to where you go to lunch and who pays for it.