6 ms·

Interview with Rob Rhinehart about Soylent

46 points by jp_sc 13y ago

reggieband 13y ago
It's interesting to see an industry traditionally dominated by marketing/advertising being taken on from the perspective of engineering. I have a strong suspicion that the management team isn't right for the long term and if they really hope to compete in the food industry or supplement industry they will have to get bought out. I was a bit surprised when I tracked down the price - $65-$75 for a weeks supply means $10+ per day. Although I cannot imagine replacing my entire diet with this I could see supplementing or replacing the occasional individual meal. IMO, the price would have to come down from $10 for that to be reasonable.
noonespecial 13y ago
Sounds pretty wild. What's next for the smoothie that Gawker said "looks just like semen"? The color is a bit problematic in that respect. He should just put in a little coloring. I suggest green.
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  Blue maybe, but probably not green which is often associated with algae growth in fluids. One of the most interesting thing about this whole campaign is seeing who is afraid of it. Now that provides some interesting insights.
  - noonespecial 13y ago
    Yes. I'm being serious about adding a coloring. Most synthetic foods don't have very nice colorings without dyes to help. Blue would be good, a lightish brown like chocolate milkshake would be good too. The green suggestion was in reference to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green, a joke.
    - vmarsy 13y ago
      Why would blue be good ? Instinctively, we're not really attracted to blue food because no natural food is blue. There is a few counter examples like the blue Gatorade, but it's 100% liquid, I can't think of any soup-texture food that is blue.
      - rdouble 13y ago
        Blueberries.
        vmarsy 13y ago
        It's more dark blue - purple. Even, would you like a puree that has the same color as blueberries ? (Blueberry puree is not blue : http://www.adventuresinshaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/blueberry-puree.jpg http://www.adventuresinshaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/b... )
        deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
      - jere 13y ago
        >There is a few counter examples like the blue Gatorade, but it's 100% liquid, I can't think of any soup-texture food that is blue. Blue smoothies are pretty visually attractive.
      - tocomment 13y ago
        What about blueberries? Check and mate.
    - bluedino 13y ago
      If you eat a large amount of food with coloring in it, like green or blue, it comes out green or blue.
  - dasil003 13y ago
    I'm scared of it. Well let me qualify that. I wouldn't trust my health to eating primarily an engineered food solution as he is doing. In the grand scheme of things it's a lot less scary than the majority of "food" that you see for sale everywhere in the developed world. At least he is trying to create a healthy food rather than something that addicts people and maximizes margins. So I think it's better than the status quo, far less scary than Coca Cola for instance. But the part that scares me is the idea that a healthy diet can be engineered. As far as I've seen, our understanding of diet and human metabolism is in the dark ages. I wouldn't trust a nutritionist to engineer a diet any more than I would trust a medieval "doctor" to cure me by bloodletting. So what insight does that provide about me?
    - vmarsy 13y ago
      I agree with you, but with a mass produced product we can expect low costs, so this would be really helpful in poor countries where starvation is common. If Soylent becomes cheaper than the previous products [1], it would definitely help more people. For people living in the US, I agree with you and I don't think it's a solution : If we take 2 different people, whose optimal intake is 2500 kcal, I'm pretty sure that among these 2500 kcal, one person would need x% of protein and y% of carbs, whereas the other person would need x2% and y2%, so how can Soylent fix this ? If we can figure out what the x,y,x2,y2 exact values are, then people could get their personalized Soylent, but we're far from it. [1] http://www.wfp.org/nutrition/special-nutritional-products http://www.wfp.org/nutrition/special-nutritional-products
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
    - Afforess 13y ago
      But you do trust your health to the distracted 16 year old flipping burgers at McDonalds?
      - geoka9 13y ago
        No, I trust my health to some million years old nature that says kale is good for me. When I eat a burger at McDonalds, I know what I'm getting and it surely isn't for the health benefits.
  - adrow 13y ago
    I think blue is considered an appetite suppressant isn't it?
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - cube13 13y ago
    Absolutely not green. Green is people.
- kylelibra 13y ago
  It's already named Soylent, I feel like you kinda have to have a green colored version.
- garry 13y ago
  I've tried the newest formulation and it is actually a light milk chocolate color.
chrisduesing 13y ago
There is a big gap between "all the ingredients are safe to eat" and "the ingredients comprise everything your body requires".
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  True, one does not imply the other. But if you've read Rob's blog and other material you see that his process was identify "the ingredients your body requires" and then "find those ingredients in safe to eat form." So in this case the list of ingredients is a dependent variable on what your body requires.
parnas 13y ago
soy causes man boobs
- Blaaguuu 13y ago
  I'm not sure if you are serious, or trying to make a joke... But last I heard, consuming the Phytoestrogens in soy were found to have no measurable effect on a human male's estrogen/testosterone levels, or otherwise make them appear/act more feminine.
  - simplethird 13y ago
    Sure, but I'm pretty sure the reason xenoestrogens are "bad" is because they affect the same cellular receptors as naturally occurring hormones, not because they affect estrogen/testosterone levels. Just because we've measured that something isn't the case, doesn't necessarily mean something (else) isn't happening. It could be doing something we just can't measure yet. Who knows what the long-term effects of greater phytoestrogen intake is for an individual? Or for their future offspring? As others in this thread have alluded to, we're far from having a correct model that we can believe in with high confidence when it comes to nutrition.
- pa5tabear 13y ago
  His latest recipe uses rice and pea protein. No soy.
xutopia 13y ago
I think the digestive track adapts to what you eat. If you eat only this for a while you may have issues digesting other things down the road. At least this is my anecdotal experience with eating the same damn thing as a student.
jmduke 13y ago
On one hand, I really really want Soylent to be successful; it would solve so many problems if we had a ubiquitous, cheap, and above all else effective meal replacement option. On the other hand, I can't shake the feeling that it's not going to. Even reading this article, my suspicions flared up a few times (I thought invoking McDonalds was strange, and most of his points about nutrition and consumption seemed off-base.) Maybe it's years and years of pseudoscience taking its toll on me, I dunno. At the very least, I'm interested to see where things are headed.
- bluedino 13y ago
  I really doubt that it would be cheaper than say, beans and rice. The initial one week supply is $65, which is nearly $10/day.
  - dmix 13y ago
    It may succeed competing on convenience (and marketing) not necessarily price. Something mailed to your door monthly and quickly mixed together vs going to the grocery store for beans and firing up the rice steamer for 15min.
  - deletes 13y ago
    That is just the current price, it will go way down with mass production.
    - mongol 13y ago
      How can it become cheaper than harvesting and packaging something that needs very little additional processing? I don't see the economical argument.
      - dasil003 13y ago
        Agricultural subsidies is one way.
      - dragonwriter 13y ago
bjourne 13y ago
Doesn't someone already own the trademark for Soylent? Here is Rob's trademark application dated February 21, 2013: http://www.markhound.com/trademark/search/sBxK5WeM7 http://www.markhound.com/trademark/search/sBxK5WeM7 It seems (to me) incredibly unlikely that someone hasn't already at least tried to trademark it for use in protein shakes or other foodstuffs. And whoever owns the rights to the movie Soylent Green might want to have a word with him if his food supplement ever becomes popular.
deletes 13y ago
Nobody noticed this but Soylent actually made its debut in the matrix. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oEnJfZ9joY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oEnJfZ9joY Truly the food of the future. (controlled by machines.)
kevbin 13y ago
I don't get the appeal to those of us w/ easy access to a wide variety of inexpensive, high-quality foods stuffs. Eating a varied diet is one of life's great joys, not a problem that needs to be solved. Even if you want to avoid the joy of eating, isn't Ensure Complete Vanilla already a sufficient meal-replacement-that-looks-like-seminal-fluid drink?
jmuguy 13y ago
I'm sure this stuff will be just as successful as baby formula. And I mean that in the most sarcastic way possible.
robbiet480 13y ago
Another up and coming Oakland based company!
pallandt 13y ago
An overlooked consequence of long-term replacement of solids with liquids for nutrition is the fact that dentition is going to most likely change, I'm referring especially to teeth position. Daily chewing is applying pressure to teeth and keeping them 'set' in the position you're familiar with. While researching some wisdom tooth extraction possible long-term side effects, I was surprised to find out how much can teeth migrate, start receding etc. if one is not able to chew on both sides for example. I don't remember the source(s), but I saw real pictures of people with this problem. There were multiple causes too, not just as a consequence of extractions gone wrong. A lot of people are focusing on the issue of meeting nutritional requirements, but I'm curious on seeing a real dentist's opinion on the possible long-term effects of such a diet as well.

46 points by jp_sc 13y ago

It's interesting to see an industry traditionally dominated by marketing/advertising being taken on from the perspective of engineering. I have a strong suspicion that the management team isn't right for the long term and if they really hope to compete in the food industry or supplement industry they will have to get bought out. I was a bit surprised when I tracked down the price - $65-$75 for a weeks supply means $10+ per day. Although I cannot imagine replacing my entire diet with this I could see supplementing or replacing the occasional individual meal. IMO, the price would have to come down from $10 for that to be reasonable.

noonespecial 13y ago

Sounds pretty wild. What's next for the smoothie that Gawker said "looks just like semen"? The color is a bit problematic in that respect. He should just put in a little coloring. I suggest green.

ChuckMcM 13y ago
Blue maybe, but probably not green which is often associated with algae growth in fluids. One of the most interesting thing about this whole campaign is seeing who is afraid of it. Now that provides some interesting insights.
- noonespecial 13y ago
  Yes. I'm being serious about adding a coloring. Most synthetic foods don't have very nice colorings without dyes to help. Blue would be good, a lightish brown like chocolate milkshake would be good too. The green suggestion was in reference to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green, a joke.
  - vmarsy 13y ago
    Why would blue be good ? Instinctively, we're not really attracted to blue food because no natural food is blue. There is a few counter examples like the blue Gatorade, but it's 100% liquid, I can't think of any soup-texture food that is blue.
    - rdouble 13y ago
      Blueberries.
      - vmarsy 13y ago
        It's more dark blue - purple. Even, would you like a puree that has the same color as blueberries ? (Blueberry puree is not blue : http://www.adventuresinshaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/blueberry-puree.jpg http://www.adventuresinshaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/b... )
        deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
    - jere 13y ago
      >There is a few counter examples like the blue Gatorade, but it's 100% liquid, I can't think of any soup-texture food that is blue. Blue smoothies are pretty visually attractive.
    - tocomment 13y ago
      What about blueberries? Check and mate.
  - bluedino 13y ago
    If you eat a large amount of food with coloring in it, like green or blue, it comes out green or blue.
- dasil003 13y ago
  I'm scared of it. Well let me qualify that. I wouldn't trust my health to eating primarily an engineered food solution as he is doing. In the grand scheme of things it's a lot less scary than the majority of "food" that you see for sale everywhere in the developed world. At least he is trying to create a healthy food rather than something that addicts people and maximizes margins. So I think it's better than the status quo, far less scary than Coca Cola for instance. But the part that scares me is the idea that a healthy diet can be engineered. As far as I've seen, our understanding of diet and human metabolism is in the dark ages. I wouldn't trust a nutritionist to engineer a diet any more than I would trust a medieval "doctor" to cure me by bloodletting. So what insight does that provide about me?
  - vmarsy 13y ago
    I agree with you, but with a mass produced product we can expect low costs, so this would be really helpful in poor countries where starvation is common. If Soylent becomes cheaper than the previous products [1], it would definitely help more people. For people living in the US, I agree with you and I don't think it's a solution : If we take 2 different people, whose optimal intake is 2500 kcal, I'm pretty sure that among these 2500 kcal, one person would need x% of protein and y% of carbs, whereas the other person would need x2% and y2%, so how can Soylent fix this ? If we can figure out what the x,y,x2,y2 exact values are, then people could get their personalized Soylent, but we're far from it. [1] http://www.wfp.org/nutrition/special-nutritional-products http://www.wfp.org/nutrition/special-nutritional-products
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
  - Afforess 13y ago
    But you do trust your health to the distracted 16 year old flipping burgers at McDonalds?
    - geoka9 13y ago
      No, I trust my health to some million years old nature that says kale is good for me. When I eat a burger at McDonalds, I know what I'm getting and it surely isn't for the health benefits.
- adrow 13y ago
  I think blue is considered an appetite suppressant isn't it?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- cube13 13y ago
  Absolutely not green. Green is people.
kylelibra 13y ago
It's already named Soylent, I feel like you kinda have to have a green colored version.
garry 13y ago
I've tried the newest formulation and it is actually a light milk chocolate color.

chrisduesing 13y ago

There is a big gap between "all the ingredients are safe to eat" and "the ingredients comprise everything your body requires".

ChuckMcM 13y ago
True, one does not imply the other. But if you've read Rob's blog and other material you see that his process was identify "the ingredients your body requires" and then "find those ingredients in safe to eat form." So in this case the list of ingredients is a dependent variable on what your body requires.

parnas 13y ago

soy causes man boobs

Blaaguuu 13y ago
I'm not sure if you are serious, or trying to make a joke... But last I heard, consuming the Phytoestrogens in soy were found to have no measurable effect on a human male's estrogen/testosterone levels, or otherwise make them appear/act more feminine.
- simplethird 13y ago
  Sure, but I'm pretty sure the reason xenoestrogens are "bad" is because they affect the same cellular receptors as naturally occurring hormones, not because they affect estrogen/testosterone levels. Just because we've measured that something isn't the case, doesn't necessarily mean something (else) isn't happening. It could be doing something we just can't measure yet. Who knows what the long-term effects of greater phytoestrogen intake is for an individual? Or for their future offspring? As others in this thread have alluded to, we're far from having a correct model that we can believe in with high confidence when it comes to nutrition.
pa5tabear 13y ago
His latest recipe uses rice and pea protein. No soy.

xutopia 13y ago

I think the digestive track adapts to what you eat. If you eat only this for a while you may have issues digesting other things down the road. At least this is my anecdotal experience with eating the same damn thing as a student.

jmduke 13y ago

On one hand, I really really want Soylent to be successful; it would solve so many problems if we had a ubiquitous, cheap, and above all else effective meal replacement option. On the other hand, I can't shake the feeling that it's not going to. Even reading this article, my suspicions flared up a few times (I thought invoking McDonalds was strange, and most of his points about nutrition and consumption seemed off-base.) Maybe it's years and years of pseudoscience taking its toll on me, I dunno. At the very least, I'm interested to see where things are headed.

bluedino 13y ago
I really doubt that it would be cheaper than say, beans and rice. The initial one week supply is $65, which is nearly $10/day.
- dmix 13y ago
  It may succeed competing on convenience (and marketing) not necessarily price. Something mailed to your door monthly and quickly mixed together vs going to the grocery store for beans and firing up the rice steamer for 15min.
- deletes 13y ago
  That is just the current price, it will go way down with mass production.
  - mongol 13y ago
    How can it become cheaper than harvesting and packaging something that needs very little additional processing? I don't see the economical argument.
    - dasil003 13y ago
      Agricultural subsidies is one way.
    - dragonwriter 13y ago

bjourne 13y ago

Doesn't someone already own the trademark for Soylent? Here is Rob's trademark application dated February 21, 2013: http://www.markhound.com/trademark/search/sBxK5WeM7 http://www.markhound.com/trademark/search/sBxK5WeM7 It seems (to me) incredibly unlikely that someone hasn't already at least tried to trademark it for use in protein shakes or other foodstuffs. And whoever owns the rights to the movie Soylent Green might want to have a word with him if his food supplement ever becomes popular.

deletes 13y ago

Nobody noticed this but Soylent actually made its debut in the matrix. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oEnJfZ9joY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oEnJfZ9joY Truly the food of the future. (controlled by machines.)

kevbin 13y ago

I don't get the appeal to those of us w/ easy access to a wide variety of inexpensive, high-quality foods stuffs. Eating a varied diet is one of life's great joys, not a problem that needs to be solved. Even if you want to avoid the joy of eating, isn't Ensure Complete Vanilla already a sufficient meal-replacement-that-looks-like-seminal-fluid drink?

jmuguy 13y ago

I'm sure this stuff will be just as successful as baby formula. And I mean that in the most sarcastic way possible.

robbiet480 13y ago

Another up and coming Oakland based company!

pallandt 13y ago

An overlooked consequence of long-term replacement of solids with liquids for nutrition is the fact that dentition is going to most likely change, I'm referring especially to teeth position. Daily chewing is applying pressure to teeth and keeping them 'set' in the position you're familiar with. While researching some wisdom tooth extraction possible long-term side effects, I was surprised to find out how much can teeth migrate, start receding etc. if one is not able to chew on both sides for example. I don't remember the source(s), but I saw real pictures of people with this problem. There were multiple causes too, not just as a consequence of extractions gone wrong. A lot of people are focusing on the issue of meeting nutritional requirements, but I'm curious on seeing a real dentist's opinion on the possible long-term effects of such a diet as well.