4 ms·

This is a conversation that we need to continually have as a nation and I am glad to see it being covered in more "mainstream" press. What are we giving up to

This is a conversation that we need to continually have as a nation and I am glad to see it being covered in more "mainstream" press. What are we giving up to gain our freedom and is it worth it in the long run? The intelligence apparatus our nation has constructed only has value as long as we have fear, they are thereby induced to continually keep us in a state of fear whether real or fabricated. My biggest fear is that many of these recent "terrorist incidents", not 9/11, were in fact created by our own agencies...yes a bit of a tin foil hat scenario to be sure but one that is not all together unreasonable given the current revelations.

northwest 13y ago
Again, war is a huge business. (And this of course includes the so-called "war" on terrorism.) I believe that's the main reason (if not the only reason) why it is being kept alive (today by using the cheap manipulation technique of fear).
- benajnim 13y ago
  Nothing makes the economy "boom" more than focusing productivity on single-use weapons and other commodities of war. The industrial production of WWII is what kicked off the boom that followed. If some is good, then more must be better - perpetual war must be the best stimulus we could give our economy!
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
Zelphyr 13y ago
> many of these recent "terrorist incidents", not 9/11, were in fact created by our own agencies I don't think they consciously did it. But I do think our policies and heavy-handedness have created more terrorists than we've defeated.
- mpweiher 13y ago
  While the indirect creation of terrorists is certainly also a factor, the direct method of creating plots that you can then "foil" has been widely documented and analyzed: http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2007/may/11/paid-fbi-informant-egged-on-terror-suspects/ http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2007/may/11/paid-fbi-info... http://politicalscience.osu.edu/faculty/jmueller/absisfin.pdf http://politicalscience.osu.edu/faculty/jmueller/absisfin.pd... http://politicalscience.osu.edu/faculty/jmueller/since.html http://politicalscience.osu.edu/faculty/jmueller/since.html http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120917/05193620404/fbi-continues-to-foil-its-own-devised-terrorist-plots.shtml http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120917/05193620404/fbi-co...
at-fates-hands 13y ago
>>>>My biggest fear is that many of these recent "terrorist incidents", not 9/11, were in fact created by our own agencies Which incidents do you specifically think were fabricated?
- Retric 13y ago
  Shutting down all those embassies in response to vague chatter. If all a terrorist needs to do is talk about an attack for us to shut everything down then they clearly win. That is not to say we can't respond just that this response is only rational if it was was purely political in nature. Not to mention clearly stating we bugged this guys call was stupid from an intelegence standpoint.
  - at-fates-hands 13y ago
    I'm convinced the embassies were shut down for political reasons. No way this administration wants another Benghazi on their hands. I do think to some degree is was an overreaction considering our embassies are considered sovereign territory and its on the host country to defend the embassy - which funny, didn't happen in Libya. >>>Not to mention clearly stating we bugged this guys call was stupid from an intelegence standpoint. Agreed. I'm still surprised why this administration continues to leak intelligence to the media. All those lines of communication and means of intercepting intel are now burned.
    - D9u 13y ago
      Obviously, the leaks are intended to justify the current trend of global surveillance. You should have heard the backlash against Biden for dropping the "ST6 killed bin Ladin" bomb in the press. People were saying that naming (a defunct since 1987) SEAL team as being responsible for killing bin Ladin equated to placing those SEALs at risk... (as if being a SEAL wasn't already placing yourself at risk?)
      - malandrew 13y ago
        What is it about naming a SEAL team, which is only identified by the addition of a single digit, that puts them at risk or creates issues for them? Assuming they are consecutively numbered, I would assume there is a ST1, ST2, ST3, ST4, ST5 and possibly many ST(n+1). What makes ST6 special?
Florin_Andrei 13y ago
If you think you're Number One, then everything must be Perfect. If it's not, that contradicts your entire world view, and then you go in overdrive trying to reconcile expectation and reality. It's that simple.

northwest 13y ago

Again, war is a huge business. (And this of course includes the so-called "war" on terrorism.) I believe that's the main reason (if not the only reason) why it is being kept alive (today by using the cheap manipulation technique of fear).

benajnim 13y ago
Nothing makes the economy "boom" more than focusing productivity on single-use weapons and other commodities of war. The industrial production of WWII is what kicked off the boom that followed. If some is good, then more must be better - perpetual war must be the best stimulus we could give our economy!
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

Zelphyr 13y ago

> many of these recent "terrorist incidents", not 9/11, were in fact created by our own agencies I don't think they consciously did it. But I do think our policies and heavy-handedness have created more terrorists than we've defeated.

mpweiher 13y ago
While the indirect creation of terrorists is certainly also a factor, the direct method of creating plots that you can then "foil" has been widely documented and analyzed: http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2007/may/11/paid-fbi-informant-egged-on-terror-suspects/ http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2007/may/11/paid-fbi-info... http://politicalscience.osu.edu/faculty/jmueller/absisfin.pdf http://politicalscience.osu.edu/faculty/jmueller/absisfin.pd... http://politicalscience.osu.edu/faculty/jmueller/since.html http://politicalscience.osu.edu/faculty/jmueller/since.html http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120917/05193620404/fbi-continues-to-foil-its-own-devised-terrorist-plots.shtml http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120917/05193620404/fbi-co...

at-fates-hands 13y ago

>>>>My biggest fear is that many of these recent "terrorist incidents", not 9/11, were in fact created by our own agencies Which incidents do you specifically think were fabricated?

Retric 13y ago
Shutting down all those embassies in response to vague chatter. If all a terrorist needs to do is talk about an attack for us to shut everything down then they clearly win. That is not to say we can't respond just that this response is only rational if it was was purely political in nature. Not to mention clearly stating we bugged this guys call was stupid from an intelegence standpoint.
- at-fates-hands 13y ago
  I'm convinced the embassies were shut down for political reasons. No way this administration wants another Benghazi on their hands. I do think to some degree is was an overreaction considering our embassies are considered sovereign territory and its on the host country to defend the embassy - which funny, didn't happen in Libya. >>>Not to mention clearly stating we bugged this guys call was stupid from an intelegence standpoint. Agreed. I'm still surprised why this administration continues to leak intelligence to the media. All those lines of communication and means of intercepting intel are now burned.
  - D9u 13y ago
    Obviously, the leaks are intended to justify the current trend of global surveillance. You should have heard the backlash against Biden for dropping the "ST6 killed bin Ladin" bomb in the press. People were saying that naming (a defunct since 1987) SEAL team as being responsible for killing bin Ladin equated to placing those SEALs at risk... (as if being a SEAL wasn't already placing yourself at risk?)
    - malandrew 13y ago
      What is it about naming a SEAL team, which is only identified by the addition of a single digit, that puts them at risk or creates issues for them? Assuming they are consecutively numbered, I would assume there is a ST1, ST2, ST3, ST4, ST5 and possibly many ST(n+1). What makes ST6 special?

Florin_Andrei 13y ago

If you think you're Number One, then everything must be Perfect. If it's not, that contradicts your entire world view, and then you go in overdrive trying to reconcile expectation and reality. It's that simple.