7 ms·

This Startup’s Cheap Sensors Could Create an OS for Everyday Life

51 points by jimiasty 13y ago

rdl 13y ago
I'm curious how "trustworthy" this is -- i.e. how hard it would be to spoof. If I could trust that a certain configuration of ~12 estimote beacons changing signals in a certain way as I walked through my home meant I was at home, I'd be comfortable using 4-digit PINs instead of passwords for a lot of things.
jimiasty 13y ago
This is Estimote (YC S13) co-founder here. The contextual micro-location based interactions triggered by the presence of Bluetooth Beacons is something called iBeacon and will be part of iOS7 this Fall. Since it is still under NDA those who have an Apple Developer Account could access sample codes in the Apple SDK. For those who would like to experiment already and check the possibilities we have also published a blog post explaining how to turn one iOS6 device intro a virtual beacon and use the other to experiment with micro-location: http://blog.estimote.com/post/57087873876/a-simple-way-to-simulate-apple-ios7-ibeacon-feature http://blog.estimote.com/post/57087873876/a-simple-way-to-si...
Matti 13y ago
"from roughly 150 feet away down to just one or two inches." Are these kind of sensors/receivers available in such commercially available versions that they can be easily incorporated into robotic projects? It seems like this could be used for a robot "homing in" to a position -- such as a charging station.
- jimiasty 13y ago
  Hi Matti, there are several approaches to Bluetooth Low Energy beacons. Project called Tail (http://www.thetileapp.com/ http://www.thetileapp.com/) is building sensors that you attach to products and when they move or are lost your smartphone can use the Bluetooth radio signals to detect its proximity. Our www.estimote.com beacons are designed to be placed in a fixed location such as retail store, museum or park. They broadcast their location to all the phones or devices (like your robot) in the range. The devices could pickup the signal and estimate the location very precisely, down to inches - so it is definitely a technology that could be used to indoor-navigation for robots, machines in the factory or doctors in a hospital. We at Estimote are focused on retail, but we also have an API and presale Dev Kits, so anybody could experiment with the technology. Shoot me an email jakub at estimote.com and will be more than happy to advice on how to use it for robots.
  - Stwerp 13y ago
    > The devices could pickup the signal and estimate the location very precisely, down to inches - so it is definitely a technology that could be used to indoor-navigation for robots, machines in the factory or doctors in a hospital. There has been a _lot_ of research in this area that I have seen and almost everything seems to ignore multipath propagation. I think the more interesting approach is fusing RF localization with other sensors (example paper [pdf warning for those fearful of them] https://smartech.gatech.edu/bitstream/handle/1853/37074/pervasive_computing_2010.pdf https://smartech.gatech.edu/bitstream/handle/1853/37074/perv... ) Just wanting to point out that it is much more complicated than simply picking up the signal and homing in.
    - jimiasty 13y ago
      You are definitely right and there are technology limitation just to stick 3 sensors and triangulate the signal. We believe the whole indoor-navigation idea is wrong. There is no need to map every inch of the physical world and get X,Y coordinates. It's all about the context and placing tiny beacons in the doors, next to check-out, next to GoPro camera in the Best Buy. They you detect the proximity and the context and trigger an action. Of course if you would like to navigate down to inches and get X,Y you could just narrow the range of beacons and stick as many as possible - you will be very accurate and the multipath propagation is not an issue.
    - beambot 13y ago
      I'm first author on that Pervasive article... my PhD thesis focused on using passive UHF RFID tags affixed to objects, people, etc to allow mobile robots to quickly take inventory and then approach (locate) tagged objects in the home [1]. Passive UHF RFID tags are nice for a number of reasons: super-low tag cost (sub-$0.10 in bulk), long range (6+ meters), and lack of a battery (tags harvest wireless power from a reader). Bluetooth solutions will have a hard time competing with UHF RFID on these properties -- and that's key for certain applications. However, there are definitely benefits to an alternative solution like wireless triangulation. For example, even the best UHF tag localization algorithms produce error bounds on the order of 0.5 meters (there are workarounds for mobile robots). Plus, the Bluetooth solution doesn't require the reader to be mobile -- you can take a single measurement and get a decent pose estimate. I still share a lot of your concerns: if this is using triangulation, you'll need multiple base stations (ie. infrastructure costs); many similar systems require extensive calibration; and the effects of multipath, diffusion, and fading can be very tricky to characterize. As for mapping... SLAM mapping using ultra-low cost laser rangefinders [2] is nearing triviality, and even onboard visual SLAM is becoming imminently feasible. Anyway... happy to speak more offline. My contact info is easy to find. [1] More details: http://www.travisdeyle.com/publications.html http://www.travisdeyle.com/publications.html [2] http://www.hizook.com/blog/2009/12/20/ultra-low-cost-laser-rangefinders-actualized-neato-robotics http://www.hizook.com/blog/2009/12/20/ultra-low-cost-laser-r...
fennecfoxen 13y ago
Cute, but my money's still on the guys doing it with the stores' existing wi-fi network's AP infrastructure. Economies of scope.
- jimiasty 13y ago
  There is indeed an approach to locate phones based on the signales from Wi-Fi routers. The challenge is its accuracy which is not better than 6-10 metres - so it's you are in this room or in the other room. With cheap and tiny Bluetooth Low Energy beacons the accuracy could be down to inches. So it's about you being at the front-door, at the check-out, in front of the mirror, next to sofa bed in the furniture store, etc. It's much more precise, thus the context for the app on the phone could be better and the experience almost magical. And also Bluetooth Low Energy is fully supported by major phone companies (http://blog.bluetooth.com/os-season-what-it-means-to-you/ http://blog.bluetooth.com/os-season-what-it-means-to-you/) so BLE beacons like our motes could trigger different actions based on your location even if your phone is in the pocket. You can't do it with Wi-Fi and AP infrastructure and since the beacons are wireless, cheap and easy to install there will be eventually new infrastructure build.
- Charos 13y ago
  In terms of on-paper efficiency, I agree. However, doesn't the wi-fi network solution require shoppers to have wi-fi enabled on their device in order for it to work? Most people I know with smartphones keep wi-fi off unless they need it, and asking shoppers to "pretty please turn on wi-fi while you're shopping" is a questionable proposition.
KaiserPro 13y ago
Ahhh this reminds me of 2002 when advertisers discovered that you could send vCards by bluetooth. I used to get requests to pair whenever I walked through waterloo station, so that I could receive tiny little 1bit bmps and some contact details. You cool kids with your "new" bluetooth. It'd be interesting to see what the security ramifications are of having a thirdparty broadcast content directly onto your phone. Pin lock stealer anyone?
- jimiasty 13y ago
  Sure, but in 2002 there was no iPhone and apps that could handle the Bluetooth signal and trigger different actions. There was also no centralized App Store which could protect users and ensure the the quality. We are sure there will be lots of marketing people trying to use this technology as a SPAM tool, but we believe that Apple with the the new iOS7 and the feature called iBeacon solve it in an elegant way. It's still under the NDA, but there are some publications about it: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1597348 http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1597348
msabath 13y ago
I'm really excited about the possibilities that devices like this will bring. Once there is an easy and affordable way to facilitate indoor location we will see many cool things. There are a few players in this space and retail is/should be interested in this. The hard thing to do as a retail operation is to use this in a way that provides real value. The last thing that I want as a consumer is another interaction on par with SMS messaging. But, if this allowed the retailer to gather information on the consumers wants and needs and provided valuable information back to the consumer that enhanced the shopping experience, it could be amazing. I think it is smart to start with retail, but this has applications all over the place. I think the price point is extremely important. But once the price comes down and consumers and businesses can afford to purchase many of these, we will see many cool applications. If this was matched up with an easy way to program them, like IFTTT, home adoption would take off. It could really change the face of home automation. In short, I'm excited and have preordered.
- jimiasty 13y ago
  The retail applications are very obvious - imagine you walk in to IKEA and approach sofa you like the post. You want to buy it, so you take a phone out of your pocket, unlock it and BAM - so you the picture of the sofa, you could add it to the cart or read more about it. If you go browsing for other furnitures some of them like a pillow might notify you that it fits to the sofa you have in the cart. No more wooden pencils and obscure Swedish names you need to write down :P We posted a blog post about it http://blog.estimote.com/post/57087827916/wooden-pencils-are-not-the-future-of-shopping http://blog.estimote.com/post/57087827916/wooden-pencils-are...
  - steverb 13y ago
    How about smaller Mom and Pop style retail. I'm picturing the scenario where you're waiting for the sale rep to get free to ring you up and poking around the store in the meantime. Can we generate a heat map for the sales guy so he knows what you were looking at in the display racks? That would be pretty awesome.
- solistice 13y ago
instaheat 13y ago
I didn't realize Bluetooth had such a tight accuracy radius. I was looking into NFC for another project I was working on that required the two devices be touching each other. The digital poker chip, for casinos and the like to see their chip flow in real time. I do a lot of Retail & IT Consulting and this is very interesting to me. What other use cases did you have in mind that you haven't posted on your website? You website states it will ship this Summer, with Summer nearly over - is this still the case? Really looking forward to offering this to my Retail clients and working with your team on implementations.
- jimiasty 13y ago
  There is wide variety of applications from proximity marketing, indoor-navigation, automatic check-in, contact-less payments till home automation, public transportation, etc. We are extremely focused on the retail and believe that you have to provide users with a context and not to annoy them. Better shopping in IKEA or product search and navigation in Walmart are the obvious solutions. There are more specialized application - check e.g www.swirl.com they focus mostly on fashion stores or shopkick.com focused on rewards and using audio beacons. If you pre-order beacons now will ship this Monday and you will have an access to our SDK and source code of sample apps. Please note the Apple iBeacon profile is not public yet, but our beacons have over-the-air update feature so you will be able to update it using your phone whenever Apple or Google beacon profile is ready. We posted also a simple hack explaining how to turn iOS6 device into a beacon, so you could actually start experimenting now: http://blog.estimote.com/post/57087873876/a-simple-way-to-simulate-apple-ios7-ibeacon-feature http://blog.estimote.com/post/57087873876/a-simple-way-to-si...
danielrakh 13y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong but this would require the user to have bluetooth on correct? My concern is that most users have bluetooth off as it is notorious for being a drain on battery power, although it has improved dramatically. I'm also thinking about the typical user case scenario where it would require for me to go to settings->bluetooth-> and connect. Seems like too much of a hassle for the average person, or does iBeacon in iOS 7 solve this issue by not having to "connect"?
- jimiasty 13y ago
  Daniel, I think you are confusing old Bluetooth we used for headsets or car audio and the new Bluetooth 4.0 Low Energy protocol. It is new, completely redesigned protocol that is supported by Apple devices from iPhone 4S and is more similar to Zigbee than Bluetooth. Users still need to turn it on, but have measured in retail stores that most of "normal" people (not geeks) do not turn it off. Please also note the Bluetooth Low Energy is used and promoted by Apple in features like AirDrop or to communicate with Apple TV. Bluetooth Low Energy different than old Bluetooth does not require pairing and connecting. You just walk-in to the store, e.g. IKEA and approach sofa you like the most and you see the picture of the sofa on your screen. Blueooth SIG (organization behind Bluetooth standard) projects strong growth in the number of devices that support BLE: http://blog.bluetooth.com/os-season-what-it-means-to-you/ http://blog.bluetooth.com/os-season-what-it-means-to-you/

51 points by jimiasty 13y ago

rdl 13y ago

I'm curious how "trustworthy" this is -- i.e. how hard it would be to spoof. If I could trust that a certain configuration of ~12 estimote beacons changing signals in a certain way as I walked through my home meant I was at home, I'd be comfortable using 4-digit PINs instead of passwords for a lot of things.

jimiasty 13y ago

This is Estimote (YC S13) co-founder here. The contextual micro-location based interactions triggered by the presence of Bluetooth Beacons is something called iBeacon and will be part of iOS7 this Fall. Since it is still under NDA those who have an Apple Developer Account could access sample codes in the Apple SDK. For those who would like to experiment already and check the possibilities we have also published a blog post explaining how to turn one iOS6 device intro a virtual beacon and use the other to experiment with micro-location: http://blog.estimote.com/post/57087873876/a-simple-way-to-simulate-apple-ios7-ibeacon-feature http://blog.estimote.com/post/57087873876/a-simple-way-to-si...

Matti 13y ago

"from roughly 150 feet away down to just one or two inches." Are these kind of sensors/receivers available in such commercially available versions that they can be easily incorporated into robotic projects? It seems like this could be used for a robot "homing in" to a position -- such as a charging station.

jimiasty 13y ago
Hi Matti, there are several approaches to Bluetooth Low Energy beacons. Project called Tail (http://www.thetileapp.com/ http://www.thetileapp.com/) is building sensors that you attach to products and when they move or are lost your smartphone can use the Bluetooth radio signals to detect its proximity. Our www.estimote.com beacons are designed to be placed in a fixed location such as retail store, museum or park. They broadcast their location to all the phones or devices (like your robot) in the range. The devices could pickup the signal and estimate the location very precisely, down to inches - so it is definitely a technology that could be used to indoor-navigation for robots, machines in the factory or doctors in a hospital. We at Estimote are focused on retail, but we also have an API and presale Dev Kits, so anybody could experiment with the technology. Shoot me an email jakub at estimote.com and will be more than happy to advice on how to use it for robots.
- Stwerp 13y ago
  > The devices could pickup the signal and estimate the location very precisely, down to inches - so it is definitely a technology that could be used to indoor-navigation for robots, machines in the factory or doctors in a hospital. There has been a _lot_ of research in this area that I have seen and almost everything seems to ignore multipath propagation. I think the more interesting approach is fusing RF localization with other sensors (example paper [pdf warning for those fearful of them] https://smartech.gatech.edu/bitstream/handle/1853/37074/pervasive_computing_2010.pdf https://smartech.gatech.edu/bitstream/handle/1853/37074/perv... ) Just wanting to point out that it is much more complicated than simply picking up the signal and homing in.
  - jimiasty 13y ago
    You are definitely right and there are technology limitation just to stick 3 sensors and triangulate the signal. We believe the whole indoor-navigation idea is wrong. There is no need to map every inch of the physical world and get X,Y coordinates. It's all about the context and placing tiny beacons in the doors, next to check-out, next to GoPro camera in the Best Buy. They you detect the proximity and the context and trigger an action. Of course if you would like to navigate down to inches and get X,Y you could just narrow the range of beacons and stick as many as possible - you will be very accurate and the multipath propagation is not an issue.
  - beambot 13y ago
    I'm first author on that Pervasive article... my PhD thesis focused on using passive UHF RFID tags affixed to objects, people, etc to allow mobile robots to quickly take inventory and then approach (locate) tagged objects in the home [1]. Passive UHF RFID tags are nice for a number of reasons: super-low tag cost (sub-$0.10 in bulk), long range (6+ meters), and lack of a battery (tags harvest wireless power from a reader). Bluetooth solutions will have a hard time competing with UHF RFID on these properties -- and that's key for certain applications. However, there are definitely benefits to an alternative solution like wireless triangulation. For example, even the best UHF tag localization algorithms produce error bounds on the order of 0.5 meters (there are workarounds for mobile robots). Plus, the Bluetooth solution doesn't require the reader to be mobile -- you can take a single measurement and get a decent pose estimate. I still share a lot of your concerns: if this is using triangulation, you'll need multiple base stations (ie. infrastructure costs); many similar systems require extensive calibration; and the effects of multipath, diffusion, and fading can be very tricky to characterize. As for mapping... SLAM mapping using ultra-low cost laser rangefinders [2] is nearing triviality, and even onboard visual SLAM is becoming imminently feasible. Anyway... happy to speak more offline. My contact info is easy to find. [1] More details: http://www.travisdeyle.com/publications.html http://www.travisdeyle.com/publications.html [2] http://www.hizook.com/blog/2009/12/20/ultra-low-cost-laser-rangefinders-actualized-neato-robotics http://www.hizook.com/blog/2009/12/20/ultra-low-cost-laser-r...

fennecfoxen 13y ago

Cute, but my money's still on the guys doing it with the stores' existing wi-fi network's AP infrastructure. Economies of scope.

jimiasty 13y ago
There is indeed an approach to locate phones based on the signales from Wi-Fi routers. The challenge is its accuracy which is not better than 6-10 metres - so it's you are in this room or in the other room. With cheap and tiny Bluetooth Low Energy beacons the accuracy could be down to inches. So it's about you being at the front-door, at the check-out, in front of the mirror, next to sofa bed in the furniture store, etc. It's much more precise, thus the context for the app on the phone could be better and the experience almost magical. And also Bluetooth Low Energy is fully supported by major phone companies (http://blog.bluetooth.com/os-season-what-it-means-to-you/ http://blog.bluetooth.com/os-season-what-it-means-to-you/) so BLE beacons like our motes could trigger different actions based on your location even if your phone is in the pocket. You can't do it with Wi-Fi and AP infrastructure and since the beacons are wireless, cheap and easy to install there will be eventually new infrastructure build.
Charos 13y ago
In terms of on-paper efficiency, I agree. However, doesn't the wi-fi network solution require shoppers to have wi-fi enabled on their device in order for it to work? Most people I know with smartphones keep wi-fi off unless they need it, and asking shoppers to "pretty please turn on wi-fi while you're shopping" is a questionable proposition.

KaiserPro 13y ago

Ahhh this reminds me of 2002 when advertisers discovered that you could send vCards by bluetooth. I used to get requests to pair whenever I walked through waterloo station, so that I could receive tiny little 1bit bmps and some contact details. You cool kids with your "new" bluetooth. It'd be interesting to see what the security ramifications are of having a thirdparty broadcast content directly onto your phone. Pin lock stealer anyone?

jimiasty 13y ago
Sure, but in 2002 there was no iPhone and apps that could handle the Bluetooth signal and trigger different actions. There was also no centralized App Store which could protect users and ensure the the quality. We are sure there will be lots of marketing people trying to use this technology as a SPAM tool, but we believe that Apple with the the new iOS7 and the feature called iBeacon solve it in an elegant way. It's still under the NDA, but there are some publications about it: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1597348 http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1597348

msabath 13y ago

I'm really excited about the possibilities that devices like this will bring. Once there is an easy and affordable way to facilitate indoor location we will see many cool things. There are a few players in this space and retail is/should be interested in this. The hard thing to do as a retail operation is to use this in a way that provides real value. The last thing that I want as a consumer is another interaction on par with SMS messaging. But, if this allowed the retailer to gather information on the consumers wants and needs and provided valuable information back to the consumer that enhanced the shopping experience, it could be amazing. I think it is smart to start with retail, but this has applications all over the place. I think the price point is extremely important. But once the price comes down and consumers and businesses can afford to purchase many of these, we will see many cool applications. If this was matched up with an easy way to program them, like IFTTT, home adoption would take off. It could really change the face of home automation. In short, I'm excited and have preordered.

jimiasty 13y ago
The retail applications are very obvious - imagine you walk in to IKEA and approach sofa you like the post. You want to buy it, so you take a phone out of your pocket, unlock it and BAM - so you the picture of the sofa, you could add it to the cart or read more about it. If you go browsing for other furnitures some of them like a pillow might notify you that it fits to the sofa you have in the cart. No more wooden pencils and obscure Swedish names you need to write down :P We posted a blog post about it http://blog.estimote.com/post/57087827916/wooden-pencils-are-not-the-future-of-shopping http://blog.estimote.com/post/57087827916/wooden-pencils-are...
- steverb 13y ago
  How about smaller Mom and Pop style retail. I'm picturing the scenario where you're waiting for the sale rep to get free to ring you up and poking around the store in the meantime. Can we generate a heat map for the sales guy so he knows what you were looking at in the display racks? That would be pretty awesome.
solistice 13y ago

instaheat 13y ago

I didn't realize Bluetooth had such a tight accuracy radius. I was looking into NFC for another project I was working on that required the two devices be touching each other. The digital poker chip, for casinos and the like to see their chip flow in real time. I do a lot of Retail & IT Consulting and this is very interesting to me. What other use cases did you have in mind that you haven't posted on your website? You website states it will ship this Summer, with Summer nearly over - is this still the case? Really looking forward to offering this to my Retail clients and working with your team on implementations.

jimiasty 13y ago
There is wide variety of applications from proximity marketing, indoor-navigation, automatic check-in, contact-less payments till home automation, public transportation, etc. We are extremely focused on the retail and believe that you have to provide users with a context and not to annoy them. Better shopping in IKEA or product search and navigation in Walmart are the obvious solutions. There are more specialized application - check e.g www.swirl.com they focus mostly on fashion stores or shopkick.com focused on rewards and using audio beacons. If you pre-order beacons now will ship this Monday and you will have an access to our SDK and source code of sample apps. Please note the Apple iBeacon profile is not public yet, but our beacons have over-the-air update feature so you will be able to update it using your phone whenever Apple or Google beacon profile is ready. We posted also a simple hack explaining how to turn iOS6 device into a beacon, so you could actually start experimenting now: http://blog.estimote.com/post/57087873876/a-simple-way-to-simulate-apple-ios7-ibeacon-feature http://blog.estimote.com/post/57087873876/a-simple-way-to-si...

danielrakh 13y ago

Correct me if I'm wrong but this would require the user to have bluetooth on correct? My concern is that most users have bluetooth off as it is notorious for being a drain on battery power, although it has improved dramatically. I'm also thinking about the typical user case scenario where it would require for me to go to settings->bluetooth-> and connect. Seems like too much of a hassle for the average person, or does iBeacon in iOS 7 solve this issue by not having to "connect"?

jimiasty 13y ago
Daniel, I think you are confusing old Bluetooth we used for headsets or car audio and the new Bluetooth 4.0 Low Energy protocol. It is new, completely redesigned protocol that is supported by Apple devices from iPhone 4S and is more similar to Zigbee than Bluetooth. Users still need to turn it on, but have measured in retail stores that most of "normal" people (not geeks) do not turn it off. Please also note the Bluetooth Low Energy is used and promoted by Apple in features like AirDrop or to communicate with Apple TV. Bluetooth Low Energy different than old Bluetooth does not require pairing and connecting. You just walk-in to the store, e.g. IKEA and approach sofa you like the most and you see the picture of the sofa on your screen. Blueooth SIG (organization behind Bluetooth standard) projects strong growth in the number of devices that support BLE: http://blog.bluetooth.com/os-season-what-it-means-to-you/ http://blog.bluetooth.com/os-season-what-it-means-to-you/