4 ms·

Which is great and I would even good as far to say 'noble', but in a political system like the United States, your vote is wasted, because your vote is not prop

by junto 13y ago

Which is great and I would even good as far to say 'noble', but in a political system like the United States, your vote is wasted, because your vote is not proportionally represented in the House of Representatives. It means you face an ever-challenging battle against almost impossible odds in order to get your green or libertarian candidate into the House of Representatives.

Xylakant 13y ago
Here in germany the system is a bit more complicated but there's also candidates that get selected by a majority vote and it used to be that people said "if you're giving your vote to the greens, the vote is wasted." That used to be true since nobody wanted to waste his vote - until enough people did so. Now there's three strong parties contesting. Even if the greens/liberals/whatever don't get elected, showing that there is a growing support for their positions sends a message. It's better than not voting or supporting the lesser of two evils.
- ksrm 13y ago
  At least you have some degree of proportionality in your voting system though. It's something people have been campaigning for for decades in the UK and it hasn't happened. I fear it might never happen.
jseliger 13y ago
your vote is wasted I beg to differ: if enough people vote for candidates who don't affiliate with the Republicans or Democrats, we'll see real change. Every vote counts. Hell, if Republicans and Democrats start seeing 10% of the votes going to greens or libertarians, they'll pay real close attention.
- javert 13y ago
  But in asking people to vote libertarian, you're asking people to suffer mightily in the short term for a thin possibility of gain in the very long term. Because you're saying, "Don't vote for the lesser of two evils; vote for this other candidate who can't get elected, just to send a message." And then the more evil candidate gets elected, because the better people vote libertarian. And then it's not even clear if there will _be_ a long term.
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  >>I beg to differ: if enough people vote for candidates who don't affiliate with the Republicans or Democrats, we'll see real change. But that's the thing: this will never happen. The current establishment is so firmly entrenched, with so many rich and powerful groups vested in it, that it will find a way to sabotage any upstart. If you genuinely believe that a third party coming to power in the US is simply a matter of it getting enough votes, I don't know what to tell you. I guess I'm envious: I lost that kind of hope a long time ago.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    Get the votes and see what happens before you claim that it wouldn't matter even if you got the votes. The greens and libertarians are way off the mainstream on a whole host of issues. Can I vote in favor of privacy without also kicking abortion and civil rights and all those things back to the states, who made a mess of them? Can I vote for privacy without also voting for unions? Neither the greens nor the libertarians offer a credible alternative. People broadly believe in a strong central government. People broadly believe in social security and Medicare and the department of education. People broadly want a strong defense and a powerful military. Get on board with all those things and then see if people are receptive to your views on individual liberties and privacy.
- chiph 13y ago
  Some of the LP-ish people recognized this dilution to be a problem, and started the Free State Project. Which is a migration to a state (they chose New Hampshire) in order to aggregate enough people to form a solid voting bloc.
r0s 13y ago
Why would the goal be fair representation in a broken, unfair system? I swear everyone thinks third-party voters have somehow never heard the words "your vote is wasted". I vote green because I've grown very cynical and I've heard it all a million times. The goal is to register as a lost vote to the established parties. If enough votes are lost they will change message and platform. The other direct goal is to give visibility and direct confrontation to the unfair system.

by junto 13y ago

Xylakant 13y ago

Here in germany the system is a bit more complicated but there's also candidates that get selected by a majority vote and it used to be that people said "if you're giving your vote to the greens, the vote is wasted." That used to be true since nobody wanted to waste his vote - until enough people did so. Now there's three strong parties contesting. Even if the greens/liberals/whatever don't get elected, showing that there is a growing support for their positions sends a message. It's better than not voting or supporting the lesser of two evils.

ksrm 13y ago
At least you have some degree of proportionality in your voting system though. It's something people have been campaigning for for decades in the UK and it hasn't happened. I fear it might never happen.

jseliger 13y ago

your vote is wasted I beg to differ: if enough people vote for candidates who don't affiliate with the Republicans or Democrats, we'll see real change. Every vote counts. Hell, if Republicans and Democrats start seeing 10% of the votes going to greens or libertarians, they'll pay real close attention.

javert 13y ago
But in asking people to vote libertarian, you're asking people to suffer mightily in the short term for a thin possibility of gain in the very long term. Because you're saying, "Don't vote for the lesser of two evils; vote for this other candidate who can't get elected, just to send a message." And then the more evil candidate gets elected, because the better people vote libertarian. And then it's not even clear if there will _be_ a long term.
enraged_camel 13y ago
>>I beg to differ: if enough people vote for candidates who don't affiliate with the Republicans or Democrats, we'll see real change. But that's the thing: this will never happen. The current establishment is so firmly entrenched, with so many rich and powerful groups vested in it, that it will find a way to sabotage any upstart. If you genuinely believe that a third party coming to power in the US is simply a matter of it getting enough votes, I don't know what to tell you. I guess I'm envious: I lost that kind of hope a long time ago.
- rayiner 13y ago
  Get the votes and see what happens before you claim that it wouldn't matter even if you got the votes. The greens and libertarians are way off the mainstream on a whole host of issues. Can I vote in favor of privacy without also kicking abortion and civil rights and all those things back to the states, who made a mess of them? Can I vote for privacy without also voting for unions? Neither the greens nor the libertarians offer a credible alternative. People broadly believe in a strong central government. People broadly believe in social security and Medicare and the department of education. People broadly want a strong defense and a powerful military. Get on board with all those things and then see if people are receptive to your views on individual liberties and privacy.
chiph 13y ago
Some of the LP-ish people recognized this dilution to be a problem, and started the Free State Project. Which is a migration to a state (they chose New Hampshire) in order to aggregate enough people to form a solid voting bloc.

r0s 13y ago

Why would the goal be fair representation in a broken, unfair system? I swear everyone thinks third-party voters have somehow never heard the words "your vote is wasted". I vote green because I've grown very cynical and I've heard it all a million times. The goal is to register as a lost vote to the established parties. If enough votes are lost they will change message and platform. The other direct goal is to give visibility and direct confrontation to the unfair system.