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Expensive cities encourage less skilled people to leave. You can get by in Ohio if you're unable to make more than $20K a year; it's much harder to survive on t

Expensive cities encourage less skilled people to leave. You can get by in Ohio if you're unable to make more than $20K a year; it's much harder to survive on that in New York, so the low earners leave. So the people you spend time around are all there because they have a good reason to be there. SF and New York are Meatspace Metafilters.

rcoder 17y ago
You have a point, but you're dangerously close to an argument that people who live in more expensive areas are intrinsically "better" than those who don't, whatever the reason. Some of us may choose to live in more affordable cities because the quality of living is higher, or because we value being able to safely and comfortably walk or bike between home, office, and other destinations. I personally make enough to live reasonably well in most any city in the US, and after a couple of years in the Bay Area, moved back to my native Portland because the quality of life was simply better, at least on the axes I care about.
- byrneseyeview 17y ago
  You have a point, but you're dangerously close to an argument that people who live in more expensive areas are intrinsically "better" than those who don't, whatever the reason. Well, no. I am totally fine with making that argument, in a statistical sense. There are plenty of exceptions, but there's a kind of critical mass effect. New York is expensive, so you probably can't live here comfortably unless you're in the top n%, so members of the top n% move here, pushing up prices (and also hanging out with other top n%ers, and coming up with new ways to make money). Some n%ers leave, of course, but the general trend is still there.
nathanwdavis 17y ago
Perhaps, but with Skype, twitter, budget airlines, etc. it is becoming more of a possibility to run an service-type business away from big startup hubs. I agree that this is not optimal, but if it saves a huge amount in startup cost, then perhaps it is worth it.
ssharp 17y ago
There are tons of people in NYC that are "low earners". Do you think everyone walking around in that city makes 6 figures? There is some truth to what you're saying but your argument doesn't hold up to defend it at all.
- sachinag 17y ago
  You can live almost anywhere in the States on a poverty income level. But the quality of life is dramatically different in New Paltz than it is in New York City, even in the South Bronx.
- byrneseyeview 17y ago
  It's a statistical argument. On average -- this is hard to deny -- New Yorkers are wealthier than non New Yorkers. Someone deciding where to live has to ask whether they'd be happy there, and whether they could afford their lifestyle. Someone who says "I could only be happy in New York earning $200K. Fortunately, in New York I can earn $300K" will be happy; someone who decides they can't earn that much will go somewhere else, even if that place doesn't have the wage and skill levels of NYC. This is also why people here walk and talk fast. With the rent so high, you can't spend time drawling or shuffling around. You have to get to the point or destination fast.
forinti 17y ago
You haven't considered income inequality. London has become ever more expensive and the result is that the middle class has been pushed out, but not the wealthy nor the poor. I think this happens because housing costs don't really go up in rougher parts even if they skyrocket in nicer areas.

rcoder 17y ago

You have a point, but you're dangerously close to an argument that people who live in more expensive areas are intrinsically "better" than those who don't, whatever the reason. Some of us may choose to live in more affordable cities because the quality of living is higher, or because we value being able to safely and comfortably walk or bike between home, office, and other destinations. I personally make enough to live reasonably well in most any city in the US, and after a couple of years in the Bay Area, moved back to my native Portland because the quality of life was simply better, at least on the axes I care about.

byrneseyeview 17y ago
You have a point, but you're dangerously close to an argument that people who live in more expensive areas are intrinsically "better" than those who don't, whatever the reason. Well, no. I am totally fine with making that argument, in a statistical sense. There are plenty of exceptions, but there's a kind of critical mass effect. New York is expensive, so you probably can't live here comfortably unless you're in the top n%, so members of the top n% move here, pushing up prices (and also hanging out with other top n%ers, and coming up with new ways to make money). Some n%ers leave, of course, but the general trend is still there.

nathanwdavis 17y ago

Perhaps, but with Skype, twitter, budget airlines, etc. it is becoming more of a possibility to run an service-type business away from big startup hubs. I agree that this is not optimal, but if it saves a huge amount in startup cost, then perhaps it is worth it.

ssharp 17y ago

There are tons of people in NYC that are "low earners". Do you think everyone walking around in that city makes 6 figures? There is some truth to what you're saying but your argument doesn't hold up to defend it at all.

sachinag 17y ago
You can live almost anywhere in the States on a poverty income level. But the quality of life is dramatically different in New Paltz than it is in New York City, even in the South Bronx.
byrneseyeview 17y ago
It's a statistical argument. On average -- this is hard to deny -- New Yorkers are wealthier than non New Yorkers. Someone deciding where to live has to ask whether they'd be happy there, and whether they could afford their lifestyle. Someone who says "I could only be happy in New York earning $200K. Fortunately, in New York I can earn $300K" will be happy; someone who decides they can't earn that much will go somewhere else, even if that place doesn't have the wage and skill levels of NYC. This is also why people here walk and talk fast. With the rent so high, you can't spend time drawling or shuffling around. You have to get to the point or destination fast.

forinti 17y ago

You haven't considered income inequality. London has become ever more expensive and the result is that the middle class has been pushed out, but not the wealthy nor the poor. I think this happens because housing costs don't really go up in rougher parts even if they skyrocket in nicer areas.