6 ms·

Is Amazon Art a Doomed Venture?

30 points by mathattack 13y ago

antidaily 13y ago
When the title is a question, the answer is usually 'No'.
- kvb 13y ago
  The full title actually ends with "Let's hope so."
  - mathattack 13y ago
    I deleted the "Let's hope so" because I thought it was editorializing. :-)
    - diminish 13y ago
      Let's hope so ;-)
jsight 13y ago
I think the reviews on this one are a pretty good indication of where this is going: http://www.amazon.com/LEnfant-tasse-portrait-Jean-Monet/dp/B00E2PAN0Q/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top http://www.amazon.com/LEnfant-tasse-portrait-Jean-Monet/dp/B... If it is going to work, then they have a lot of work left to do.
- mathattack 13y ago
  If anything the reviews are good PR, no? I'm waiting for the one that comes with the "Amazon Confirmed Purchase" tag.
- 650REDHAIR 13y ago
  Ugh. Those reviews would have been cute 10 years ago, but I really wish Amazon would screen reviews or only allow people who have purchased that particular item.
  - ijk 13y ago
    Which is a problem for a marketplace of mostly-unique or one-off items. Ebay makes the seller ratings paramount, which mostly works. Amazon has seller ratings, but the sitewide culture doesn't place as much emphasis on them. I've rated every Ebay seller I've ever worked with, but I don't always remember to do the same with Amazon, and I assume that's pretty typical.
  - mathattack 13y ago
    This makes me wonder if it's a PR stunt. I think Amazon allows them to stay up because it draws traffic to the site. Amazon does flag reviews where they can verify the purchase.
- zipppy 13y ago
  I think those reviews are zero indication of where it will go. That isn't to say that Amazon art will do well, I just doubt that people writing those reviews represent the demand for art or the feelings of people who might buy from Amazon.
- smackfu 13y ago
  Smart thing would be to add logic to say: if type = "Unique Work" then disallow reviews.
Filecloud 13y ago
It is launched just now.
keiferski 13y ago
Amazon seems to targeting the wrong category of the art market. I can see people buying works for $50-$2,000. But the idea of someone paying 1.5 mil for a Monet on Amazon is both ridiculous and unlikely.
- ctdonath 13y ago
  Makes it easy for someone to find a Monet for sale, and easy for someone to offer one (simple & cheap to list). I was stunned right off the bat that I could buy genuine Dali works for $5000 - maybe overpriced, but makes it easy to buy if I've got the cash and the stock market is tanking. Making it easy to move easy money (if such money is easy for you) is profitable for Amazon. eBay has a lot of listings priced over 6 digits. Both are positioning themselves as the go-to site for buying anything, recognizing that entries in a web-searchable database costs next to nothing regardless of how many digits in the offered price tag.
- prawn 13y ago
  I think this opportunity combines basic access/awareness and the fact that there are more people out there with money to burn than some of us think. On top of that, simply getting a product in front of so many new (and unlikely) eyeballs has to have some value. On the first point and in my experience, the majority of traditional galleries rarely list prices for art. That leaves no chance to be surprised at accessibility ("Who would've thought that Dali lithograph would be $2k? That's worth it just to say I have a Dali on my wall.") or to start saving towards a defined goal ("$6,000. And I love it. If I get that end of financial year bonus..."). How many people would just think "If I have to ask, I can't afford it" and walk away. A piece or something similar might be cheaper in a specific gallery, but it's quite possible that a newcomer would have little idea about that. Or no way of easily telling if the gallery itself was listing POA. On the second point, someone recently offered a $1m+ tour package that travelled to every UNESCO world heritage site (hundreds of them), across a span of 1-2 years. They found a buyer. There is a growing interest in wine from an inexperienced Chinese market with money to spend and I could see there being a similar market for Western art presented accessibly too.
- ed209 13y ago
  This is what it seems like to our generation (I'm guessing you're 25+). By the time current 12 year olds are old enough to buy art, buying it online will seem totally normal. ~2006 I tried to create an online art marketplace (this was a direct-from-artist marketplace from $50 to $50,000) and one of the main problems was that buying online made the work feel a bit cheaper. That's a stigma that will die off. All you need to sell work remotely is trusting the brand you're buying through (Amazon) and being familiar with the artist you're buying.
tonetheman 13y ago
The article is odd. Almost seems like the author is pissed about people being able to buy art... I like the concept of being able to purchase prints or art online, and amazon has online shipping down... I hope it makes it.
- rubinelli 13y ago
  I've seen worse. Some people on the Internet seem offended by the very concept of other people making money off anything but manual labor.
- mturmon 13y ago
  Yes. And he's focusing his words on things that don't make sense, rather than speculating on what might work out. When well-off people build homes, they want art for the walls. So they buy a bunch of art en masse ("will these colors work in the study?"). This site could work for these people, or for the consultants that they hire to recommend work. Another related use case would be boutique hotels and other public spaces.
grimtrigger 13y ago
Here's my guess as to why art would be overpriced on Amazon (I know nothing about art prices, so I won't assume that it actually is, just why it would make sense). Some recently IPO'd CEO walks into a Brooklyn gallery and sees a piece of art. He likes art but he's not much of a collector. He knows that art can be a very lucrative investment, but has no idea what sells in this wierdo art market. When he finds a piece at the gallery and has a good feeling about, he whips out his phone and does a google search of the artist/piece and finds and would you look at that! Prices are on Amazon.com with reviews and everything. The artist/gallery knows this is happening, so they jack their price on Amazon. "Hey! This is worth $50k and I'm getting it for $10k". Plus when you show off your house, you can say "Oh, you like that? I got it at this cute little gallery in Greenpoint last summer". Art combines the speculative nature of investment with all the trend psychology of fashion. Its an irrational market, and a really odd fit for Amazon.com.
njharman 13y ago
The author is focusing on >$10000 and < $500 (posters and crap) It's the mid-range that is interesting here.
pessimizer 13y ago
I think a better question is "What is the marginal cost for Amazon adding art as a new product category?" which is approximately $0. They can afford to keep it around until buying art on the internet becomes either normalized (if there's cultural friction) or perfected (if it's how they're selling it that's holding them back).
- anywhichway 13y ago
  The venture is putting amazon in the news so it also has PR implications for the rest of their business. It isn't clear yet if it will be a positive or negative impact on their reputation, but perhaps they are using this as an icebreaker into other luxury markets.
- meanguy 13y ago
  I've never had a bad experience with Amazon or any of their third parties across hundreds (!) of transactions. Long time collector, I purchased two pieces of art yesterday via the beta. Known gallery, brick-and-mortar. It's already a total debacle. Late 90s press quoted Bezos as saying he wanted Amazon to sell everything except livestock and gasoline. Compared to art galleries, there's less bullshit and more ethics among the beef and oil companies. But I pushed the button yesterday specifically knowing Amazon had my back. That says a lot.
  - dblock 13y ago
    Could you elaborate on the debacle part?
    - meanguy 13y ago
      Nothing that's Amazon's fault. Amazon purchase history shows order complete, paid via Amazon credit card. Gallery currently refuses to ship either piece. Verdict: yes, Amazon has successfully brought the magical experience of dealing with art dealers online. Not sure earning their cut is going to be much fun for them, but like Prime I'll happily use it as long as they offer the implausible service.
joshaidan 13y ago
>> Should you buy this mediocre Mary Cassatt lithograph for “Price: $185,000.00 + $4.49 shipping”? (Jeff, is WaPo charging you $250 million plus $4.49 shipping? I don’t think so. ) If you have an Amazon Prime subscription, I bet you don't have to pay the $4.49 shipping.
smackfu 13y ago
I agree with others that is odd to focus on "name" high-end art for this article. I'm sure most of the sales will come out of the lower-end decorator market. Where people want to buy a good-sized under-$500 photo that will make a room, and it's very easy to use this service to browse a lot of pieces and find that kind of thing.
Dru89 13y ago
The thing that I never see mentioned here is that it's not actually Amazon listing these items, but third party merchants through Amazon Marketplace. Doesn't that mean that the merchants are the ones setting these "high prices"? If the merchant thinks their Monet is worth $1.5M, then they can sell it (or lower the price). Amazon pays very little for each listing and then takes their commission (and I don't know what that is, but even 5% of $1.5M is a shiny penny). So if it doesn't work, all that's lost is the dev hours spent on the experiment. If it does work, then Amazon has really increased their profit, and the customer/merchant experience is that much better
maxbaroi 13y ago
Would someone involved in the art world please comment. I always thought seeing a painting in person would be crucial to buying art (if you're in the really high end). There's more than just how the painting looks and its provenance. It's a physical object that has layers, textures and patterns to it. But then again, if it's only a stays symbol then who cares?
BenSS 13y ago
I don't think eBay is Amazon's end goal with this. In the long run, it is more about Southeby's and Christies's. It will be a long slog to establish a reputation as a reliable source, but we all know Amazon is willing to go long.
mathattack 13y ago
It is strange to hear "Don't you need to see art in person?" because I felt the same way about books, shoes and eyeglasses.
- chrismonsanto 13y ago
  I still do feel that way about books--I often take trips to B&N just to look around, even though I rarely purchase books from them. I purchased my last pair of shoes from Zappos, and I don't think they would be nearly as attractive if they didn't have such a good return policy (the internet-equivalent of see it in person).

30 points by mathattack 13y ago

antidaily 13y ago

When the title is a question, the answer is usually 'No'.

kvb 13y ago
The full title actually ends with "Let's hope so."
- mathattack 13y ago
  I deleted the "Let's hope so" because I thought it was editorializing. :-)
  - diminish 13y ago
    Let's hope so ;-)

jsight 13y ago

I think the reviews on this one are a pretty good indication of where this is going: http://www.amazon.com/LEnfant-tasse-portrait-Jean-Monet/dp/B00E2PAN0Q/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top http://www.amazon.com/LEnfant-tasse-portrait-Jean-Monet/dp/B... If it is going to work, then they have a lot of work left to do.

mathattack 13y ago
If anything the reviews are good PR, no? I'm waiting for the one that comes with the "Amazon Confirmed Purchase" tag.
650REDHAIR 13y ago
Ugh. Those reviews would have been cute 10 years ago, but I really wish Amazon would screen reviews or only allow people who have purchased that particular item.
- ijk 13y ago
  Which is a problem for a marketplace of mostly-unique or one-off items. Ebay makes the seller ratings paramount, which mostly works. Amazon has seller ratings, but the sitewide culture doesn't place as much emphasis on them. I've rated every Ebay seller I've ever worked with, but I don't always remember to do the same with Amazon, and I assume that's pretty typical.
- mathattack 13y ago
  This makes me wonder if it's a PR stunt. I think Amazon allows them to stay up because it draws traffic to the site. Amazon does flag reviews where they can verify the purchase.
zipppy 13y ago
I think those reviews are zero indication of where it will go. That isn't to say that Amazon art will do well, I just doubt that people writing those reviews represent the demand for art or the feelings of people who might buy from Amazon.
smackfu 13y ago
Smart thing would be to add logic to say: if type = "Unique Work" then disallow reviews.

Filecloud 13y ago

It is launched just now.

keiferski 13y ago

Amazon seems to targeting the wrong category of the art market. I can see people buying works for $50-$2,000. But the idea of someone paying 1.5 mil for a Monet on Amazon is both ridiculous and unlikely.

ctdonath 13y ago
Makes it easy for someone to find a Monet for sale, and easy for someone to offer one (simple & cheap to list). I was stunned right off the bat that I could buy genuine Dali works for $5000 - maybe overpriced, but makes it easy to buy if I've got the cash and the stock market is tanking. Making it easy to move easy money (if such money is easy for you) is profitable for Amazon. eBay has a lot of listings priced over 6 digits. Both are positioning themselves as the go-to site for buying anything, recognizing that entries in a web-searchable database costs next to nothing regardless of how many digits in the offered price tag.
prawn 13y ago
I think this opportunity combines basic access/awareness and the fact that there are more people out there with money to burn than some of us think. On top of that, simply getting a product in front of so many new (and unlikely) eyeballs has to have some value. On the first point and in my experience, the majority of traditional galleries rarely list prices for art. That leaves no chance to be surprised at accessibility ("Who would've thought that Dali lithograph would be $2k? That's worth it just to say I have a Dali on my wall.") or to start saving towards a defined goal ("$6,000. And I love it. If I get that end of financial year bonus..."). How many people would just think "If I have to ask, I can't afford it" and walk away. A piece or something similar might be cheaper in a specific gallery, but it's quite possible that a newcomer would have little idea about that. Or no way of easily telling if the gallery itself was listing POA. On the second point, someone recently offered a $1m+ tour package that travelled to every UNESCO world heritage site (hundreds of them), across a span of 1-2 years. They found a buyer. There is a growing interest in wine from an inexperienced Chinese market with money to spend and I could see there being a similar market for Western art presented accessibly too.
ed209 13y ago
This is what it seems like to our generation (I'm guessing you're 25+). By the time current 12 year olds are old enough to buy art, buying it online will seem totally normal. ~2006 I tried to create an online art marketplace (this was a direct-from-artist marketplace from $50 to $50,000) and one of the main problems was that buying online made the work feel a bit cheaper. That's a stigma that will die off. All you need to sell work remotely is trusting the brand you're buying through (Amazon) and being familiar with the artist you're buying.

tonetheman 13y ago

The article is odd. Almost seems like the author is pissed about people being able to buy art... I like the concept of being able to purchase prints or art online, and amazon has online shipping down... I hope it makes it.

rubinelli 13y ago
I've seen worse. Some people on the Internet seem offended by the very concept of other people making money off anything but manual labor.
mturmon 13y ago
Yes. And he's focusing his words on things that don't make sense, rather than speculating on what might work out. When well-off people build homes, they want art for the walls. So they buy a bunch of art en masse ("will these colors work in the study?"). This site could work for these people, or for the consultants that they hire to recommend work. Another related use case would be boutique hotels and other public spaces.

grimtrigger 13y ago

Here's my guess as to why art would be overpriced on Amazon (I know nothing about art prices, so I won't assume that it actually is, just why it would make sense). Some recently IPO'd CEO walks into a Brooklyn gallery and sees a piece of art. He likes art but he's not much of a collector. He knows that art can be a very lucrative investment, but has no idea what sells in this wierdo art market. When he finds a piece at the gallery and has a good feeling about, he whips out his phone and does a google search of the artist/piece and finds and would you look at that! Prices are on Amazon.com with reviews and everything. The artist/gallery knows this is happening, so they jack their price on Amazon. "Hey! This is worth $50k and I'm getting it for $10k". Plus when you show off your house, you can say "Oh, you like that? I got it at this cute little gallery in Greenpoint last summer". Art combines the speculative nature of investment with all the trend psychology of fashion. Its an irrational market, and a really odd fit for Amazon.com.

njharman 13y ago

The author is focusing on >$10000 and < $500 (posters and crap) It's the mid-range that is interesting here.

pessimizer 13y ago

I think a better question is "What is the marginal cost for Amazon adding art as a new product category?" which is approximately $0. They can afford to keep it around until buying art on the internet becomes either normalized (if there's cultural friction) or perfected (if it's how they're selling it that's holding them back).

anywhichway 13y ago
The venture is putting amazon in the news so it also has PR implications for the rest of their business. It isn't clear yet if it will be a positive or negative impact on their reputation, but perhaps they are using this as an icebreaker into other luxury markets.
meanguy 13y ago
I've never had a bad experience with Amazon or any of their third parties across hundreds (!) of transactions. Long time collector, I purchased two pieces of art yesterday via the beta. Known gallery, brick-and-mortar. It's already a total debacle. Late 90s press quoted Bezos as saying he wanted Amazon to sell everything except livestock and gasoline. Compared to art galleries, there's less bullshit and more ethics among the beef and oil companies. But I pushed the button yesterday specifically knowing Amazon had my back. That says a lot.
- dblock 13y ago
  Could you elaborate on the debacle part?
  - meanguy 13y ago
    Nothing that's Amazon's fault. Amazon purchase history shows order complete, paid via Amazon credit card. Gallery currently refuses to ship either piece. Verdict: yes, Amazon has successfully brought the magical experience of dealing with art dealers online. Not sure earning their cut is going to be much fun for them, but like Prime I'll happily use it as long as they offer the implausible service.

joshaidan 13y ago

>> Should you buy this mediocre Mary Cassatt lithograph for “Price: $185,000.00 + $4.49 shipping”? (Jeff, is WaPo charging you $250 million plus $4.49 shipping? I don’t think so. ) If you have an Amazon Prime subscription, I bet you don't have to pay the $4.49 shipping.

smackfu 13y ago

I agree with others that is odd to focus on "name" high-end art for this article. I'm sure most of the sales will come out of the lower-end decorator market. Where people want to buy a good-sized under-$500 photo that will make a room, and it's very easy to use this service to browse a lot of pieces and find that kind of thing.

Dru89 13y ago

The thing that I never see mentioned here is that it's not actually Amazon listing these items, but third party merchants through Amazon Marketplace. Doesn't that mean that the merchants are the ones setting these "high prices"? If the merchant thinks their Monet is worth $1.5M, then they can sell it (or lower the price). Amazon pays very little for each listing and then takes their commission (and I don't know what that is, but even 5% of $1.5M is a shiny penny). So if it doesn't work, all that's lost is the dev hours spent on the experiment. If it does work, then Amazon has really increased their profit, and the customer/merchant experience is that much better

maxbaroi 13y ago

Would someone involved in the art world please comment. I always thought seeing a painting in person would be crucial to buying art (if you're in the really high end). There's more than just how the painting looks and its provenance. It's a physical object that has layers, textures and patterns to it. But then again, if it's only a stays symbol then who cares?

BenSS 13y ago

I don't think eBay is Amazon's end goal with this. In the long run, it is more about Southeby's and Christies's. It will be a long slog to establish a reputation as a reliable source, but we all know Amazon is willing to go long.

mathattack 13y ago

It is strange to hear "Don't you need to see art in person?" because I felt the same way about books, shoes and eyeglasses.

chrismonsanto 13y ago
I still do feel that way about books--I often take trips to B&N just to look around, even though I rarely purchase books from them. I purchased my last pair of shoes from Zappos, and I don't think they would be nearly as attractive if they didn't have such a good return policy (the internet-equivalent of see it in person).