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How about fluency in a foreign language? Is that an intangible? How about the ability to write a lengthy, well-cited, well-reasoned paper in English? Is that an

How about fluency in a foreign language? Is that an intangible? How about the ability to write a lengthy, well-cited, well-reasoned paper in English? Is that an intangible skill?

gaius 17y ago
You speak as if no engineering graduates possess these skills.
Kadin 17y ago
Those are fine and exceptionally useful skills in combination with others, but on their own do not offer many opportunities. Someone whose only skill is fluency in a foreign language is limited to working as a translator; someone whose only skill is writing is pretty much limited to working as, unsurprisingly, a writer. I'm not saying that either field is unimportant but they're extremely competitive fields with a high ratio of qualified candidates to good-paying jobs. In contrast, someone with a scientific or engineering degree and fluency in a foreign language or the ability to write well, has a very good chance of never being out of demand. The problem isn't with liberal arts skills, it's with students who pursue them to the exclusion of -- rather than in addition to -- more practical curricula that are actually desired by employers.
- davidw 17y ago
  Someone who only knows how to code is a lot less valuable than someone who can program and also has knowledge of the big, wide real world.
  - Retric 17y ago
    There is a lot of evidence that this is not the case. People that only know how to program Video Card Drivers can make a fair amount of money. So, people who know how to program and also know about the big, wide real world don't make that much more on average. It can probably marginaly increase their income, but once you make 90k there is not much room for meaningful improvement on average.
- pookleblinky 17y ago
  One of my VLSI friends lamented about his Gen Ed requirements: "They want me to be a "well-rounded" engineer. Well, I know vector calculus, finite algebra, compiler theory, and enough quantum mechanics to know a little about what's going on under the silicon. Is that not well-rounded enough?"
- patio11 17y ago
  Someone whose only skill is fluency in a foreign language is limited to working as a translator Foreign language + Generic Office Worker = Extraordinarily Valuable Generic Office Worker as long as you have the right language pair for your employer. One of my best friends sells water meters. You don't have to be particularly expert to start selling water meters on the ground floor, and he wasn't, but after a few decades of it he is fairly good at selling water meters. He is also the only person in metropolitan Nagoya who can explain what a magnetic flowometer is in English, Japanese, and Spanish, and has a career of being flown out to various big customers abroad and explaining how good their flowometers are and why you want to go for magnetic or acoustic instead of the competition's inferior mechanical models.
yummyfajitas 17y ago
Writing lengthy and well cited papers is a bad habit I developed in humanities classes. Your paper must be at least $N pages long, and must cite at least $P primary sources and $S secondary sources. Writing papers which are as concise as possible (without being unreadable) and minimize external dependencies is a skill I learned in math graduate school: Your paper has been automatically rejected due to a length greater than 4 pages. While interesting, your paper will only be accepted if you clarify the following unclear points. I learned more about good english writing (as opposed to writing content-free puffery) from coding than I did from humanities classes.

How about fluency in a foreign language? Is that an intangible? How about the ability to write a lengthy, well-cited, well-reasoned paper in English? Is that an intangible skill?

gaius 17y ago

You speak as if no engineering graduates possess these skills.

Kadin 17y ago

Those are fine and exceptionally useful skills in combination with others, but on their own do not offer many opportunities. Someone whose only skill is fluency in a foreign language is limited to working as a translator; someone whose only skill is writing is pretty much limited to working as, unsurprisingly, a writer. I'm not saying that either field is unimportant but they're extremely competitive fields with a high ratio of qualified candidates to good-paying jobs. In contrast, someone with a scientific or engineering degree and fluency in a foreign language or the ability to write well, has a very good chance of never being out of demand. The problem isn't with liberal arts skills, it's with students who pursue them to the exclusion of -- rather than in addition to -- more practical curricula that are actually desired by employers.

davidw 17y ago
Someone who only knows how to code is a lot less valuable than someone who can program and also has knowledge of the big, wide real world.
- Retric 17y ago
  There is a lot of evidence that this is not the case. People that only know how to program Video Card Drivers can make a fair amount of money. So, people who know how to program and also know about the big, wide real world don't make that much more on average. It can probably marginaly increase their income, but once you make 90k there is not much room for meaningful improvement on average.
pookleblinky 17y ago
One of my VLSI friends lamented about his Gen Ed requirements: "They want me to be a "well-rounded" engineer. Well, I know vector calculus, finite algebra, compiler theory, and enough quantum mechanics to know a little about what's going on under the silicon. Is that not well-rounded enough?"
patio11 17y ago
Someone whose only skill is fluency in a foreign language is limited to working as a translator Foreign language + Generic Office Worker = Extraordinarily Valuable Generic Office Worker as long as you have the right language pair for your employer. One of my best friends sells water meters. You don't have to be particularly expert to start selling water meters on the ground floor, and he wasn't, but after a few decades of it he is fairly good at selling water meters. He is also the only person in metropolitan Nagoya who can explain what a magnetic flowometer is in English, Japanese, and Spanish, and has a career of being flown out to various big customers abroad and explaining how good their flowometers are and why you want to go for magnetic or acoustic instead of the competition's inferior mechanical models.

yummyfajitas 17y ago

Writing lengthy and well cited papers is a bad habit I developed in humanities classes. Your paper must be at least $N pages long, and must cite at least $P primary sources and $S secondary sources. Writing papers which are as concise as possible (without being unreadable) and minimize external dependencies is a skill I learned in math graduate school: Your paper has been automatically rejected due to a length greater than 4 pages. While interesting, your paper will only be accepted if you clarify the following unclear points. I learned more about good english writing (as opposed to writing content-free puffery) from coding than I did from humanities classes.