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The last time automated joke generation was discussed on HN, I learned that a large, or at least vocal, amount of people consider it to the be responsibility of

by jlgreco 13y ago

The last time automated joke generation was discussed on HN, I learned that a large, or at least vocal, amount of people consider it to the be responsibility of anybody running automatic joke generation software to supervise the software to ensure that no truly offensive jokes are inadvertently generated. I don't agree that such a responsibility exists, but it is probably worth keeping in mind that others do if you are interested in surfacing computer generated content like this. I would be wary of surfacing it without some form of auditing.

VladRussian2 13y ago
interesting ethical question - one is supposedly responsible for behavior of his automated tool/robot. If that automated tool is able to build and initiate execution of another, more complex (well big "if" of course here) automated tool ... at what level of complexity of separation the original responsibility ends, if any.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  I assume (for people who think a human is responsible for the first bot) the responsibility always lies with the human, no matter how many bot are involved. I say this simply because nobody is really interested in being mad and yelling at a bot. Whether or not the human deserves the blame is a tricky question, but I think in practice they will get it regardless.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- eli_gottlieb 13y ago
  How would you even build a bot to build a joke-bot? Genetic algorithms?
  - peter-fogg 13y ago
    Chances are any genetic algorithm would be impractical due to the necessity of using a human as a fitness function. Unless you could create a neural network to classify jokes as funny or not... which immediately suggests to me an AI version of that standup comedy competition. Hm; maybe I have a new side project.
    - eli_gottlieb 13y ago
      I hate to say this, but South Park Did It. It resulted in a comedic Dalek.
crucialfelix 13y ago
I like my joke generators like I like my preteen drinking parties, unsupervised.
mathattack 13y ago
The issue may be that there are things that we find very funny, but shouldn't.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  Well, I don't want to misrepresent the point of view too much by trying to interpret it. Here is the discussion I am thinking of: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5310421 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5310421 It isn't a viewpoint I particularly understood during that discussion, or now, so it is probably best to read it for yourself.
aantix 13y ago
You're already considering censoring the results? If a system could reliably generate funny or offensive comments I'd be elated. Computational humor is hard enough the way it is; do we really have to worry if our algorithms have table manners?
- jlgreco 13y ago
  I'm saying that before you write a game with an NPC that makes computer generated jokes, you should probably make sure it isn't going to be making any rape jokes. I don't think doing that should be necessary, I'm just pointing out that there are people who could be offended, even if they know the joke is algorithmically generated. If you are okay with a few people being mad at you, then knock yourself out, but if it might cause a PR issue that you don't want to deal with then you should exercise caution. I'm trying to offer a pragmatic warning, not make an ethical argument.
  - kevinpet 13y ago
    Offensive jokes occur in real life. The level of censorship should be a tuneable parameter of the NPC in question. Who's going to be able to suspend disbelief when the unsavory thug restricts himself to inoffensive jokes?
    - JoshTriplett 13y ago
      Depends on if that unsavory thug appears in a game rated E (Everyone), T (Teen), M (Mature), or AO (Adults Only).
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      Well, that's a decision each dev has to make I suppose. Personally, I have absolutely nothing against offensive jokes; I think anything can be joked about.
  - dualogy 13y ago
    > If you are okay with a few people being mad at you, then knock yourself out, but it might cause a PR issue Worked pretty well for Rockstar Games -- just sayin' ;)

by jlgreco 13y ago

VladRussian2 13y ago

interesting ethical question - one is supposedly responsible for behavior of his automated tool/robot. If that automated tool is able to build and initiate execution of another, more complex (well big "if" of course here) automated tool ... at what level of complexity of separation the original responsibility ends, if any.

jlgreco 13y ago
I assume (for people who think a human is responsible for the first bot) the responsibility always lies with the human, no matter how many bot are involved. I say this simply because nobody is really interested in being mad and yelling at a bot. Whether or not the human deserves the blame is a tricky question, but I think in practice they will get it regardless.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
eli_gottlieb 13y ago
How would you even build a bot to build a joke-bot? Genetic algorithms?
- peter-fogg 13y ago
  Chances are any genetic algorithm would be impractical due to the necessity of using a human as a fitness function. Unless you could create a neural network to classify jokes as funny or not... which immediately suggests to me an AI version of that standup comedy competition. Hm; maybe I have a new side project.
  - eli_gottlieb 13y ago
    I hate to say this, but South Park Did It. It resulted in a comedic Dalek.

crucialfelix 13y ago

I like my joke generators like I like my preteen drinking parties, unsupervised.

mathattack 13y ago

The issue may be that there are things that we find very funny, but shouldn't.

jlgreco 13y ago
Well, I don't want to misrepresent the point of view too much by trying to interpret it. Here is the discussion I am thinking of: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5310421 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5310421 It isn't a viewpoint I particularly understood during that discussion, or now, so it is probably best to read it for yourself.

aantix 13y ago

You're already considering censoring the results? If a system could reliably generate funny or offensive comments I'd be elated. Computational humor is hard enough the way it is; do we really have to worry if our algorithms have table manners?

jlgreco 13y ago
I'm saying that before you write a game with an NPC that makes computer generated jokes, you should probably make sure it isn't going to be making any rape jokes. I don't think doing that should be necessary, I'm just pointing out that there are people who could be offended, even if they know the joke is algorithmically generated. If you are okay with a few people being mad at you, then knock yourself out, but if it might cause a PR issue that you don't want to deal with then you should exercise caution. I'm trying to offer a pragmatic warning, not make an ethical argument.
- kevinpet 13y ago
  Offensive jokes occur in real life. The level of censorship should be a tuneable parameter of the NPC in question. Who's going to be able to suspend disbelief when the unsavory thug restricts himself to inoffensive jokes?
  - JoshTriplett 13y ago
    Depends on if that unsavory thug appears in a game rated E (Everyone), T (Teen), M (Mature), or AO (Adults Only).
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    Well, that's a decision each dev has to make I suppose. Personally, I have absolutely nothing against offensive jokes; I think anything can be joked about.
- dualogy 13y ago
  > If you are okay with a few people being mad at you, then knock yourself out, but it might cause a PR issue Worked pretty well for Rockstar Games -- just sayin' ;)