3 ms·

As far as I understand, the legality of a monopoly depends on whether it takes anticompetitive actions. Microsoft wasn't put down just for being big -- it was p

As far as I understand, the legality of a monopoly depends on whether it takes anticompetitive actions. Microsoft wasn't put down just for being big -- it was put down for including Internet Explorer into operating system, thus using an unfair advantage to promote its monopoly.

BerislavLopac 17y ago
And how do we know that Google isn't taking anti-competitive actions?
- Dilpil 17y ago
  If we want to accuse Google of taking anti-competitive actions, we have to at least decide what those actions are.
  - OmarIsmail 17y ago
    It'd have to be something like AdSense click-thru rates affecting search positions. If there was a causation, then if you want higher SERPs, you'd need to use AdSense over competing ad providers. Essentially, using their monopoly in Search to be anti-competitive in text-ads. I wonder if anybody has done such a test already...
  - vorador 17y ago
    Subsidizing Mozilla to be the default search engine in firefox ?
- mseebach 17y ago
  You try to compete with them and see what happens...
- jm4 17y ago
  If they are they're certainly being discreet about it. Microsoft was obviously anti-competitive in the 90's. The Windows/IE bundling thing was only a small part of it. All of their software was designed to lock you in. It could sometimes be difficult to use a Microsoft product without having to use others. It can be a hassle to buy a new PC without Windows, but you couldn't do it at all back then. After the OS/2 fiasco they screwed IBM on Windows 95 pricing. Other OEM's were getting it for a few bucks and IBM had to pay retail initially. It does concern me when one company dominates a market the way Google does and I think we need to keep a very close eye on them, but I don't see anything anti-competitive about what they're doing yet. In fact, they typically go out of their way to be open to the point where some of their applications allow you to move your data to a competitor's application. That said, Microsoft, just like Google now, built their monopoly with a better product. It wasn't until much later that they became slimy.
  - garply 17y ago
    Speaking of moving my data, is there a way for me to migrate out of Gmail? I read an interview (Playboy interview with the Google founders - http://kottke.org/plus/misc/google-playboy.html http://kottke.org/plus/misc/google-playboy.html) where Larry Page specifically said: 'For example, we just released Gmail, a free e-mail service. We said, “We will not hold your e-mail hostage.” We will make it possible for you to get your e-mail out of Gmail if you ever want to.' But I haven't actually figured out how to do that yet. Does anyone know?
    - jdbeast00 17y ago
      gmail has pop and imap. what more do you want
    - themole 17y ago
      Yeah, just setup the pop3 account and download it. I think you export your contacts as vcards - even if not most of your contacts should be right there in your email. I fire up thunderbird everyonce in a while to basically backup my emails because of those horror stories of people losing all their email or even access to the account
      - garply 17y ago
        Cool, thanks.
    - axod 17y ago
      I extracted every email from Gmail a while back. It took a few hours, but now I have local backups. I just used imap and moved things to a local imap server.
- abrahamsen 17y ago
  Usually these cases start when a would-be competitor accuses the monopolist of taking anti-competitive actions. First step would be to review these accusations, if they exists. Speculating whether they "might do something" without specifics seems fruitless. The 1999 "Findings of Facts" in the US vs MS case should give a good idea of what is needed. It is quite readable, written in plain language, and totally ignored by the pundits who commented the case at the time. A copy can be found here: http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~richard/findfact.html http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~richard/findfact.html
- drhowarddrfine 17y ago
  If you are aware of some, point them out. In Microsoft's case, they are known, proven and verifiable.
DenisM 17y ago
Once thing I noticed is that adwords tightly integrates with analytics but not much else. Thus, google is using their monopoly in adwords to prop up analytics - an illegal practice at least at the first glance.

BerislavLopac 17y ago

And how do we know that Google isn't taking anti-competitive actions?

Dilpil 17y ago
If we want to accuse Google of taking anti-competitive actions, we have to at least decide what those actions are.
- OmarIsmail 17y ago
  It'd have to be something like AdSense click-thru rates affecting search positions. If there was a causation, then if you want higher SERPs, you'd need to use AdSense over competing ad providers. Essentially, using their monopoly in Search to be anti-competitive in text-ads. I wonder if anybody has done such a test already...
- vorador 17y ago
  Subsidizing Mozilla to be the default search engine in firefox ?
mseebach 17y ago
You try to compete with them and see what happens...
jm4 17y ago
If they are they're certainly being discreet about it. Microsoft was obviously anti-competitive in the 90's. The Windows/IE bundling thing was only a small part of it. All of their software was designed to lock you in. It could sometimes be difficult to use a Microsoft product without having to use others. It can be a hassle to buy a new PC without Windows, but you couldn't do it at all back then. After the OS/2 fiasco they screwed IBM on Windows 95 pricing. Other OEM's were getting it for a few bucks and IBM had to pay retail initially. It does concern me when one company dominates a market the way Google does and I think we need to keep a very close eye on them, but I don't see anything anti-competitive about what they're doing yet. In fact, they typically go out of their way to be open to the point where some of their applications allow you to move your data to a competitor's application. That said, Microsoft, just like Google now, built their monopoly with a better product. It wasn't until much later that they became slimy.
- garply 17y ago
  Speaking of moving my data, is there a way for me to migrate out of Gmail? I read an interview (Playboy interview with the Google founders - http://kottke.org/plus/misc/google-playboy.html http://kottke.org/plus/misc/google-playboy.html) where Larry Page specifically said: 'For example, we just released Gmail, a free e-mail service. We said, “We will not hold your e-mail hostage.” We will make it possible for you to get your e-mail out of Gmail if you ever want to.' But I haven't actually figured out how to do that yet. Does anyone know?
  - jdbeast00 17y ago
    gmail has pop and imap. what more do you want
  - themole 17y ago
    Yeah, just setup the pop3 account and download it. I think you export your contacts as vcards - even if not most of your contacts should be right there in your email. I fire up thunderbird everyonce in a while to basically backup my emails because of those horror stories of people losing all their email or even access to the account
    - garply 17y ago
      Cool, thanks.
  - axod 17y ago
    I extracted every email from Gmail a while back. It took a few hours, but now I have local backups. I just used imap and moved things to a local imap server.
abrahamsen 17y ago
Usually these cases start when a would-be competitor accuses the monopolist of taking anti-competitive actions. First step would be to review these accusations, if they exists. Speculating whether they "might do something" without specifics seems fruitless. The 1999 "Findings of Facts" in the US vs MS case should give a good idea of what is needed. It is quite readable, written in plain language, and totally ignored by the pundits who commented the case at the time. A copy can be found here: http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~richard/findfact.html http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~richard/findfact.html
drhowarddrfine 17y ago
If you are aware of some, point them out. In Microsoft's case, they are known, proven and verifiable.

DenisM 17y ago

Once thing I noticed is that adwords tightly integrates with analytics but not much else. Thus, google is using their monopoly in adwords to prop up analytics - an illegal practice at least at the first glance.