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Extra Virginity: The Sublime and Scandalous World of Olive Oil (2012)
- eksith 13y agoI use olive oil regularly in my cooking and now, I don't know what to think. I'm curious why the original article wasn't the one submitted (though it's inserted at the bottom of that entry). http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/jan/13/extra-virginity-tom-mueller-review http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/jan/13/extra-virginity-...
- andor 13y agoI'm curious why the original article wasn't the one submitted (though it's inserted at the bottom of that entry). The submitted article is hosted on the original author's blog.
- tptacek 13y agoIf you're cooking with it, it doesn't much matter. Heat very rapidly destroys the flavor of good olive oil. Personally: stories like this should read as good news; they mean you have a lot to gain for dorking around with new oils.
- eksith 13y agoWell, I've never fried with olive oil and light cooking didn't seem to affect the flavor too much. Also, I use it mostly for the health benefits, not so much the flavor alone. I've also been experimenting with sesame oil. Made this the other night and it came out pretty well : http://www.theperfectpantry.com/2012/01/recipe-for-bok-choy-stir-fry-with-ginger-and-garlic.html http://www.theperfectpantry.com/2012/01/recipe-for-bok-choy-...
- ballard 13y agoDefinitely. There's a handy table on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point I'm thinking about the table color-coded smoke pt and a space for notes. A bit "paint by number", but there's plenty of other variables.
- tptacek 13y agoSmoke point is another good thing to know about (you can saute in olive oil but probably don't want to double-fry french fries in it) but you'll degrade the flavor of a good Greek olive oil way before you hit 160c.
- colanderman 13y agoDoes anyone have any tips for finding quality olive oil? The only way I've had success is to buy inexpensive single-source stuff, even if it's inexpensive and non-Italian. Best olive oils I've had were single-sourced from Spain; $2 from a discount store. Maybe no-one wants to fake non-Italian oil?
- hack_edu 13y agoThe article implies that you should find something that tastes good for you, not fetishize the origin/process.
- colanderman 13y agoRight, but there's 100s of kinds out there, and I could go broke buying crappy ones. To me, the article implies that the system is gamed – I am wondering if anyone knows sources / etc. for identifying those suppliers which don't game the system. My method isn't to "fetishize the origin/process" (what, do you think I'm like 12?), but to look for oils that carry lesser-desirable (and hence less likely to be gamed) properties (e.g. sourced from outside Italy; inexpensive).
- jff 13y agoYeah, I don't understand why they make such a big deal out of being sourced from Italy. Olives grown elsewhere should make fine oil, and you could probably use the honest advertisement of non-Italian origin as a gauge for the honesty of the company.
- davidw 13y agoI live in Italy, and love the food here. I am sure I could not tell Italian olive oil from Spanish, Greek, or Californian olive oil. Perhaps there are people who can, but I doubt most of my friends here could. I happily buy the "Mediterranean" extra vergin olive oil to save a bit.
- rustynails 13y ago
- zwieback 13y agoUC Davis does olive oil testing a little more systematically: http://olivecenter.ucdavis.edu/services/services http://olivecenter.ucdavis.edu/services/services
- tootie 13y agoFairway in the NY area has an olive oil bar with about dozen varieties and bread for dipping. Most are domestic and labelled as such. The nuance in flavor is easily detectable. I find most supermarket brands taste about the same. The olive taste is so distinct you'd never confuse it for canola, corn or anything else.
- enjo 13y agoThere's a fantastic olive oil store in Downtown Denver as well.
- gpjt 13y agoMy parents retired to Italy a number of years ago, to a place with a hundred or so olive trees in the garden, and each November some of us head over to pick the olives (much to the amusement of the locals, who think we're crazy to do agricultural work in our spare time) and take them to a nearby pressing plant (where you can wander around and see the process to make sure your harvest isn't being mixed up with other, lesser olives). The end result is much spicier and harsher than anything I've ever bought. Personally I think it's delicious, but I'm hardly an unbiased judge...
- omegant 13y agoOnce a year I get some 5 liters of cold pressed virgin organic olive oil. I know it´s origin for sure because it comes from a private guy doing his own stuff on a small cold press (he is not for quantity just for the best quality for his family, it´s a hobby for him). I agree with you that you won´t find anithing similar in a store: It´s more acid, spicier, deep green, clowdy (it´s unfiltered) and very very tasty (it has some taste to the olives still in it). It defenitely gives flavor to your salads or bread. You can not use it for frying as it will give a distinct flavor, not that it´ll ruin the food but it´ll taste to green olive oil. Just to give you a sense of the difference, we are used to cook almost exclusively with olive oil. We buy "virgin" olive oil from reputable brands for the saladas and special dishes. The home made one is soo much better compared to those. I love it!
- Florin_Andrei 13y agoIt baffles me how people are not puzzled how the "extra virgin" olive oil they use doesn't taste anything like olives. I mean, c'mon people, have you never tasted olives? How do you expect the "unadulterated" extract to have none of that flavor at all?
- tptacek 13y agoIt baffles me that people expect to buy "extra virgin olive oil" in canola- oil- sized- jugs and expect it to have huge flavor; I get that it's frustrating that the "extra virgin" label has been diluted to meaninglessness, but really, just treat cheap extra virgin oil as if it was "pure olive oil" (saute with it, for instance) and seek out specific oils you really like. Serious good olive oils all taste very different, so the whole idea of them being interchangeably good is a bit weird.
- clumsysmurf 13y agoMany people buy into the supposed health benefits on olive oil, which probably boils down to its phenolic content. However, this depends on many things and drops over time. The end of this article has some tips to ensure getting the best oil. http://news.discovery.com/earth/plants/olive-oil-health-benefits-1307104.htm http://news.discovery.com/earth/plants/olive-oil-health-bene...
- vixen99 13y agoHardly 'supposed'. There are plenty of peer-reviewed studies indicating the benefits of olive oil.
- andrewl 13y agoGood olive oils contain an anti-inflammatory substance called oleocanthal, which is similar to ibuprofen. It's been suggested that it's part of what makes the Mediterranean diet so healthful: http://www.monell.org/news/news_releases/olive_oil_contains_natural_anti_inflammatory_agent http://www.monell.org/news/news_releases/olive_oil_contains_...
- croisillon 13y agoThat the rougher taste is the most original reminds me of that old story I found here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3201540 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3201540
- tptacek 13y agoThere is absolutely no way anybody who is serious about olive oil could mistake a serious Tuscan or Greek olive oil for Bertolli, for exactly the reason the article points out: serious olive oil has a grassy, peppery flavor that fills your throat and sinuses; it's unmistakeable, like the difference between a 3 Floyds Dreadnaught DIPA and Bud Light, and the reason Bertolli has "corrupted" extra virgin olive oil is that American consumers won't routinely buy it. I find the anecdote at the beginning of the article hard to reconcile with the rest of the piece! (Bertolli-style oil is a fine thing to have in your kitchen, too; you might not want your mayonnaise to taste like strong Greek olive oil.)
- thezilch 13y agoSo, unless you are "serious" about oil, you have to take a shot in the dark? I'm no professional cook, but I do have a passion and cook new dishes weekly. I couldn't possibly know, from the store labels, what I can expect out of the 50 versions of EVO on the shelves. They're all EVO, unless I'm serious? They're all from Italy or Greece, unless I'm serious? There's no grounds for oils between Bertolli and "serious" oils that are better suited for salads or dipping -- the "serious" EVOs? The problem exists for $8 to $50 bottles; how can consumers possibly inform themselves that they are buying crap? Luckily for me, I stumbled upon California Olive Ranch oil.
- tptacek 13y agoYes, if you're buying olive oil at the supermarket, it's going to be a crap shoot. But you're going to know immediately that you've got bland oil (if it tastes anything like other supermarket oils, it's bland; the difference isn't subtle --- again, think about the difference between an IPA and a lager). Again, a good way to handle this is to drop $35 on a bottle from some place like Zingermans, and just use it as a benchmark.
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- TwiztidK 13y ago
- zachwill 13y agoReally interesting article, OP. I love coming across these type of links on HN — just seems like it happens less often these days.
- wahnfrieden 13y agoAnyone know a good olive oil obtainable in NYC? (I'd rather not pay huge shipping fees for some of the other things listed here.)
- lhc- 13y agoI think there's a store in Chelsea Market (my brother lives there and sent me some OO) called the Filling Station which has some nice choices. I can't speak to the veracity of their origin, but that place will have a lot of choices and you will be able to get a very peppery, very strong oil (I am a big fan of Hojiblanca if you see it, but anything toward the more peppery end is my preference).
- jseliger 13y agoThe Union Square Whole Foods has a good selection. See also this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6162695 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6162695.
- bradleyjg 13y agoIf you are okay with Greek olive oil (and you probably should be) go over to Astoria and visit one of the Greek supermarkets. E.g. http://www.titanfoods.net/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=TF http://www.titanfoods.net/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store... Actual Italian immigrants are scare on the ground these days, so I'm not convinced you'd see anything particularly unique in e.g. the Arthur Avenue section of the Bronx. But I could be wrong.
- celebdor 13y agoThere are many kinds of olive varieties, some of them growing in the span of one or two towns. Saying it is supposed to taste like this or like that without saying from which kind of olives it was made sounds kind of nonsensical. Another matter is that of honesty. Italy is known to export more olive oil than it produces and it is buying production from quite a lot of towns in my country and then mixing it and packaging it with oils from other places. If you want good olive oil, try to find small productions, ensure that it was stored in the dark if possible and taste it first (dipping bread on the oil not just sprinkling, it should be quite soaked). Supermarket olive oil of any price is only suitable for frying, that much is known.
- mynameishere 13y agoSupermarket olive oil of any price is only suitable for frying Yeah, yeah. and both the [eminent] foodies gave a thumbs-up to Unilever's much-derided Bertolli brand. Same as with wine. It's just a fruit and the variations from its production simply aren't as great as people like to think. Anyway, the best fat comes from bacon.
- celebdor 13y agoI'm just saying how we do it in my oil producing town. The oil you get from your production or from a town producer in the local mill is for salads, toasts, etc. Oil bought in packs of 3-5l in the supermarket (extra-virgin brands) is what we use for frying. It is so much like that, that now that I live abroad I'm flying with 8l packs of my town's oil at least twice a year.
- celebdor 13y agoHere in the link you can see for each label of origin they list which varities of olives are more common: http://www.worldsofflavorspain.com/node/385 http://www.worldsofflavorspain.com/node/385 (arbequina is a most common variety and more spicy in the aftertaste, but as you can see, like with wine, different varieties produce so different results that talking in generics is rather uneducated).
- ballard 13y agoI thought everybody knew this already. Store-bought (TJ, WF, etc.) doesn't look, taste and isn't priced anything like the real thing. If you didn't see it go in the bottle yourself, it probably has cheaper oils mixed in. Caveat emptor.
- bobf 13y agoI found my favorite olive oil, Alfar La Maja, in a small shop in San Sebastian, Spain. It comes from Mendavia, Spain, which is part of the Navarra region and is well known for its' olive production. At the time I bought it I had no idea it would be the best olive oil I've ever had, but I had two things working in my favor: 1) San Sebastian's residents and tourists are incredibly serious about food, 2) it was fresh, single source, small production, local, etc. Later, I looked it up online, and found this gem -- according to the NY Olive Oil competition, "Alfar La Maja is one of the world's best extra virgin olive oils for 2013."
- jseliger 13y agoFor more on this, see the New Yorker's 2007 article "Slippery Business: The trade in adulterated olive oil" at http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/08/13/070813fa_fact_mueller http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/08/13/070813fa_fact_.... I'm surprised "they" haven't worked to further regulate the field; apparently one problem is that developing chemical tests to reliably discern real from fake olive oil is very difficult.
- lostlogin 13y agoSimilar problems apply in other markets too (as I'm sure you are aware). Fake Manuka honey is one that causes locals here some grief. http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8928858/Manuka-honey-fall-fouls-of-overseas-tests http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8928858/Manuka-hone...
- r0s 13y agoHere's a plug for my local olive oil producer: http://www.bvranch.com/ http://www.bvranch.com/ Quality conscious and low on bullshit.
- pyrocat 13y agoI use lemon pressed olive oil on almost all my cooking now and it's delicious.
- bobf 13y agoRound Pond Estate has some wonderful olive oil with citrus aromatics, including one with Meyer lemon that you would probably love. If you're in the SF area, they also do tours of their winery + olive oil press/facilities.
- dunham 13y agoTheir red wine vinegars are worth a try too. (Honestly, it's the only non-mass-market red wine vinegar I've tried, but I'm really happy with it.)
- lostlogin 13y agoHmm, citrus everywhere. I've just finished oiling my floor (last night!) with an oil that seems to have a lot of citrus oil in it, judging by the smell and contents label. Looks great, is patch repairable (sand and reapply) and is nice to work with, none of which apply to polyurethane after the first scratch. http://www.naturalhouse.co.nz/shop/java-classic-resin-oil/ http://www.naturalhouse.co.nz/shop/java-classic-resin-oil/
- powertower 13y agoPersonally, I only use grapeseed oil. I've tried olive, it's too heavy. Tried canola, it's okay. But grapeseed is amazing. It has no particular flavor, you could drink it and not become sick from the heavy load that typical oils will give you, etc.
- Mikeb85 13y ago+1 For cooking, grape seed is the best. I've worked in alot of top restaurants, for cooking they use grape seed exclusively. Extra virgin olive oil should only be used when you want the specific flavour it provides (ie. drizzled on things like pizza, pasta, bread, etc...).
- tptacek 13y agoI cook in grapeseed, but use olive oil for every raw application.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- nullc 13y agoMy first experience with proper olive oil was ordering some from http://www.amphoranueva.com/ http://www.amphoranueva.com/ after one of their coratina oils was suggested by someone on some forum who'd done chemical assaying on a number of oils looking for polyphenol content, as relevant to some moderately supported study results on positive health outcomes. I couldn't have been happier with the result... and even if you use a fair amount of oil it still takes a while to go through 750ml of the stuff, so that fact that it's $18/bottle doesn't break the bank. (and it keeps well if kept isolated from air and light) Er, well, I mean used properly: raw in food, not for cooking. You shouldn't heat good evo as its smoke point is lower than random supermarket mystery olive oil, and heating it removes most of the flavor anyways. Opinions may differ though, I could certainly see some people really disliking the grassy acidic flavor of strong EVO.