4 ms·

My company (which, according to Glassdoor, is paying above-average tech salaries) recently started offering ~$100 per lead for software engineering referrals. I

by zeteo 13y ago

My company (which, according to Glassdoor, is paying above-average tech salaries) recently started offering ~$100 per lead for software engineering referrals. If the person ends up being hired, their referrer also gets a ~$2000 bonus. A recruiting firm that can truly locate these missing engineers would be making a killing in the marketplace right now.

w3pm 13y ago
Plenty of companies I know pay $5-10k or more for a successful hire referral. Good engineers are in demand, foreign or not. It's way easier to get the interview and be hired if you're local, though -- can't beat skill + convenience. Considering you pay 25-30% or more of first year salary for a hire by a recruiter and $10k is a complete bargain.
tootie 13y ago
Same here. Data notwithstanding, I've done a lot of job interviews for candidates with the right resume and most are not hirable. Software engineering is a field where quality is hugely important.
- hga 13y ago
  We share this experience, or as I put it, a majority who "can't program their way out of a paper bag". But that doesn't tell if there are enough candidates out there if the salaries and conditions of work were better. The latter is very possibly a big issue with H-1B employees, seeing as how they've a modern version of indentured servants.
  - gkuan 13y ago
    Do you have any insight into why so many "can't program their way out of a paper bag"? Does this go beyond the observation of a bimodal distribution of programming ability and the discouraging results of the McCracken Group research (from the early 2000s on the international inability of CS1 and CS2 students to implement an RPN calculator)? I am seriously curious about this question. If anyone has some insight, please contact me.
    - hga 13y ago
      Not particularly. I can reframe the issue by pointing out that programming is hard, and it's something we've only recently been seriously doing. I analogize it to reading and writing as "we haven't even found the phonetic alphabet" (or at least agreed that Lisp is that :-). Going further, that means a lot of aspiring programmers have no chance whatsoever of being good programmers, and a lot just fake it. Going back to the writing analogy, perhaps they write prose good enough for an online comment, but they'll never write a competent novel or serious nonfiction book that a publisher might accept. But still, they view themselves as programmers, and too many outfits don't check to see if they can really program before making a job offer, and often for some time afterwords. Or they otherwise manage to hold onto positions, at least for a while.
FedRegister 13y ago
Part of the problem is that the salaries are just too damn low right now. If you offer a competitive or even above-average salary that's _livable_ in the Bay Area then talent will beat a path to your door. Try to lowball or meet other offers and you'll be stuck without candidates.
- dylangs1030 13y ago
  I'm really interested in this. As a New Yorker, I don't find this principle. Is it superbly difficult to commute to the Bay Area from a less urban surrounding? In New York City, if you don't have the money to pay for an urban apartment you can live in the Bronx or Westchester and easily commute to the city.
  - FedRegister 13y ago
    If you expect talent to work crunch hours and give mind, body, and soul unquestionably then do you really think, at the end of the day, they should have to schlep out the suburbs because your stingy ass doesn't want to pay a living wage for the Bay Area? Even if that were the case, in order to qualify for the H-1B there have to be no qualified candidates in the US which means either you are doing something nobody is doing (unlikely) our your wage is too low for your market, even in the suburbs.
    - dylangs1030 13y ago
      No, I don't think it's fair (to answer your central point), merely that it's doable. But I'm not trying to be difficult - I was actually asking if a commute is possible, not being rhetorical for a point. In New York City it is possible to commute, but I wouldn't want to work there and commute to the city from a suburb.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - __--__ 13y ago
    Transportation infrastructure in the bay area sucks. As a New Yorker, you're used to efficiently run subways and trains. In the bay area, Google busses exist for a reason.
krainboltgreene 13y ago
Even if they could "locate" the engineers, that doesn't mean the engineers will want to work for the companies paying.
- snowwrestler 13y ago
  Who would rather stay unemployed than take an engineering job?
  - dylangs1030 13y ago
    A successful technical consultant who makes double what any company could reasonably offer him save the largest. True, this isn't technically "unemployed" but they're practically the same thing - not owned by a competitor, and hirable if you can seduce them. SaaS and tech consulting are really trendy right now because there are a lot of successful role models for these things. That said, a lot of magnificent failures and wannabes...but that comes with anything. Add to this the fact that the companies who really understand how valuable good, skilled engineers are will make generous offers with benefits and vacations and conferences and food and luxury and and and...and you see why it becomes difficult to find the really sexy workers.
bicknergseng 13y ago
Seems like you could make some easy money by going to the nearest college and gathering engineering students email addresses.
- dylangs1030 13y ago
  That's a thing already. Related: It's really annoying. Nobody does it just to genuinely help you - you get spammed halfway to hell. Oh, and maybe a connection or two.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
droithomme 13y ago
Please state the salary range you offer, your metro area, and whether you pay all interviewing expenses for the candidate (economy airfare and accommodation in your city), and full relocation expenses. Only then can we begin the process of evaluating whether your inability to hire is due to lack of talent availability, or if it is due to other factors.

by zeteo 13y ago

w3pm 13y ago

Plenty of companies I know pay $5-10k or more for a successful hire referral. Good engineers are in demand, foreign or not. It's way easier to get the interview and be hired if you're local, though -- can't beat skill + convenience. Considering you pay 25-30% or more of first year salary for a hire by a recruiter and $10k is a complete bargain.

tootie 13y ago

Same here. Data notwithstanding, I've done a lot of job interviews for candidates with the right resume and most are not hirable. Software engineering is a field where quality is hugely important.

hga 13y ago
We share this experience, or as I put it, a majority who "can't program their way out of a paper bag". But that doesn't tell if there are enough candidates out there if the salaries and conditions of work were better. The latter is very possibly a big issue with H-1B employees, seeing as how they've a modern version of indentured servants.
- gkuan 13y ago
  Do you have any insight into why so many "can't program their way out of a paper bag"? Does this go beyond the observation of a bimodal distribution of programming ability and the discouraging results of the McCracken Group research (from the early 2000s on the international inability of CS1 and CS2 students to implement an RPN calculator)? I am seriously curious about this question. If anyone has some insight, please contact me.
  - hga 13y ago
    Not particularly. I can reframe the issue by pointing out that programming is hard, and it's something we've only recently been seriously doing. I analogize it to reading and writing as "we haven't even found the phonetic alphabet" (or at least agreed that Lisp is that :-). Going further, that means a lot of aspiring programmers have no chance whatsoever of being good programmers, and a lot just fake it. Going back to the writing analogy, perhaps they write prose good enough for an online comment, but they'll never write a competent novel or serious nonfiction book that a publisher might accept. But still, they view themselves as programmers, and too many outfits don't check to see if they can really program before making a job offer, and often for some time afterwords. Or they otherwise manage to hold onto positions, at least for a while.

FedRegister 13y ago

Part of the problem is that the salaries are just too damn low right now. If you offer a competitive or even above-average salary that's _livable_ in the Bay Area then talent will beat a path to your door. Try to lowball or meet other offers and you'll be stuck without candidates.

dylangs1030 13y ago
I'm really interested in this. As a New Yorker, I don't find this principle. Is it superbly difficult to commute to the Bay Area from a less urban surrounding? In New York City, if you don't have the money to pay for an urban apartment you can live in the Bronx or Westchester and easily commute to the city.
- FedRegister 13y ago
  If you expect talent to work crunch hours and give mind, body, and soul unquestionably then do you really think, at the end of the day, they should have to schlep out the suburbs because your stingy ass doesn't want to pay a living wage for the Bay Area? Even if that were the case, in order to qualify for the H-1B there have to be no qualified candidates in the US which means either you are doing something nobody is doing (unlikely) our your wage is too low for your market, even in the suburbs.
  - dylangs1030 13y ago
    No, I don't think it's fair (to answer your central point), merely that it's doable. But I'm not trying to be difficult - I was actually asking if a commute is possible, not being rhetorical for a point. In New York City it is possible to commute, but I wouldn't want to work there and commute to the city from a suburb.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- __--__ 13y ago
  Transportation infrastructure in the bay area sucks. As a New Yorker, you're used to efficiently run subways and trains. In the bay area, Google busses exist for a reason.

krainboltgreene 13y ago

Even if they could "locate" the engineers, that doesn't mean the engineers will want to work for the companies paying.

snowwrestler 13y ago
Who would rather stay unemployed than take an engineering job?
- dylangs1030 13y ago
  A successful technical consultant who makes double what any company could reasonably offer him save the largest. True, this isn't technically "unemployed" but they're practically the same thing - not owned by a competitor, and hirable if you can seduce them. SaaS and tech consulting are really trendy right now because there are a lot of successful role models for these things. That said, a lot of magnificent failures and wannabes...but that comes with anything. Add to this the fact that the companies who really understand how valuable good, skilled engineers are will make generous offers with benefits and vacations and conferences and food and luxury and and and...and you see why it becomes difficult to find the really sexy workers.

bicknergseng 13y ago

Seems like you could make some easy money by going to the nearest college and gathering engineering students email addresses.

dylangs1030 13y ago
That's a thing already. Related: It's really annoying. Nobody does it just to genuinely help you - you get spammed halfway to hell. Oh, and maybe a connection or two.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

droithomme 13y ago

Please state the salary range you offer, your metro area, and whether you pay all interviewing expenses for the candidate (economy airfare and accommodation in your city), and full relocation expenses. Only then can we begin the process of evaluating whether your inability to hire is due to lack of talent availability, or if it is due to other factors.