39 ms·

It seems every day we hear about things in the US getting worse for the average citizen. Is it a case that it was always like this and we're only just finding o

by arjn 13y ago

It seems every day we hear about things in the US getting worse for the average citizen. Is it a case that it was always like this and we're only just finding out or are these more recent happenings ?

krstck 13y ago
I suspect the former. Still, it is good to call attention to these things.
venomsnake 13y ago
A few things to consider: 1. Internet makes small town news national news in a heartbeat if outrageous enough. 2. Currently it is a perfect storm for law enforcement - there is a decade of visible overreach, NSA, TSA, general tiredness of war on drugs and the lost wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and the war on "using war for almost any government effort, republicans hate everything government related because Obama is in office, democrats are disillusioned with him on civil rights and there is global demand for that kind of stories and the journalists supply. So maybe the first.
geuis 13y ago
Things are getting worse. This is not the country I expected to grow up into. People here grumble a lot but don't do anything about it. Most people are only passingly aware of things like government spying, police excesses, etc. Except when it happens to them. All I can hope is that it gets bad enough that enough people collectively say "Enough" and things get better again. It's a long road.
- rocky1138 13y ago
  "If there was hope, it must lie in the Proles..."
  - geuis 13y ago
    I feel like I should know that. Where is it from?
    - jfb 13y ago
      1984
    - kaoD 13y ago
      1984
  - john_b 13y ago
    Unfortunately, that is still an apt observation, and I imagine that most government agencies are well aware of this. People in general just don't protest when intangible, abstract things are stolen from them. Most people who are up in arms about the privacy and other rights violations of the past decade are highly educated, mild mannered, and small in numbers. If there was a decade long shortage of clean water, if unemployment was > 30%, or if the FCC outlawed reality television [1], then people might lose it and demand change. But the intangible theft of one's rights in a (presently) nonviolent way just doesn't register on the radar for most people. [1] Unless it was "to protect the children" of course.
- justin66 13y ago
  > Things are getting worse. I can see why you might feel that way but, in the long-term big picture, no, they're really not. There was a time when law enforcement wasn't required to recognize your right to be silent, for example, and most of the civil rights advances of the sixties still hold. Civil forfeiture is dangerous and relatively new, but there was plenty of dangerous stuff back in the day. Now, the fact that things could be a lot worse is depressing in a whole different way...
- acdha 13y ago
  I think the main difference here is that you're aware of the problem: if you were a minority race or religion, this is an old story which has actually gotten better in some ways because now the news spreads rather than being quietly confined to where you live.
incision 13y ago
>"Is it a case that it was always like this and we're only just finding out or are these more recent happenings ?" As I related a few days ago, it has always been this way for some of us [0]. 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6142519 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6142519
- mcguire 13y ago
  Rubber hose jokes and Strange Fruit did not come from nowhere.
gyepi 13y ago
The "badness" is unevenly distributed. Well educated people with money tend not to have to deal with most of it. And can usually afford to make it go away when they do. Cops also tend not to bother them as much. I have a personal interest in "poor people's" issues, my wife works with a poor "population" and I live in an area with concerns about social justice so I'm a little more aware of it. The poor are different from you and me and it's not just because they have less money.
- scarmig 13y ago
  It's very unevenly distributed: dealing with it is a way of life for African Americans and Hispanics. But you can certainly be screwed over by corrupt or, worse, power-hungry police even when you're a well-to-do straight white male.
rayiner 13y ago
In the 1950's and 1960's, if you weren't white they wouldn't even pretend to give you a fair trial. The 4th amendment has been a fiction for probably two decades now in New York for non-whites. It's always been at least this bad, and in fact it's probably better now than it was in the 1950's and 1960's. The difference now is: 1) Stories about this sort of thing are becoming well-known thanks to the internet; 2) Police are starting to mess with white people.

by arjn 13y ago

krstck 13y ago

I suspect the former. Still, it is good to call attention to these things.

venomsnake 13y ago

A few things to consider: 1. Internet makes small town news national news in a heartbeat if outrageous enough. 2. Currently it is a perfect storm for law enforcement - there is a decade of visible overreach, NSA, TSA, general tiredness of war on drugs and the lost wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and the war on "using war for almost any government effort, republicans hate everything government related because Obama is in office, democrats are disillusioned with him on civil rights and there is global demand for that kind of stories and the journalists supply. So maybe the first.

geuis 13y ago

Things are getting worse. This is not the country I expected to grow up into. People here grumble a lot but don't do anything about it. Most people are only passingly aware of things like government spying, police excesses, etc. Except when it happens to them. All I can hope is that it gets bad enough that enough people collectively say "Enough" and things get better again. It's a long road.

rocky1138 13y ago
"If there was hope, it must lie in the Proles..."
- geuis 13y ago
  I feel like I should know that. Where is it from?
  - jfb 13y ago
    1984
  - kaoD 13y ago
    1984
- john_b 13y ago
  Unfortunately, that is still an apt observation, and I imagine that most government agencies are well aware of this. People in general just don't protest when intangible, abstract things are stolen from them. Most people who are up in arms about the privacy and other rights violations of the past decade are highly educated, mild mannered, and small in numbers. If there was a decade long shortage of clean water, if unemployment was > 30%, or if the FCC outlawed reality television [1], then people might lose it and demand change. But the intangible theft of one's rights in a (presently) nonviolent way just doesn't register on the radar for most people. [1] Unless it was "to protect the children" of course.
justin66 13y ago
> Things are getting worse. I can see why you might feel that way but, in the long-term big picture, no, they're really not. There was a time when law enforcement wasn't required to recognize your right to be silent, for example, and most of the civil rights advances of the sixties still hold. Civil forfeiture is dangerous and relatively new, but there was plenty of dangerous stuff back in the day. Now, the fact that things could be a lot worse is depressing in a whole different way...
acdha 13y ago
I think the main difference here is that you're aware of the problem: if you were a minority race or religion, this is an old story which has actually gotten better in some ways because now the news spreads rather than being quietly confined to where you live.

incision 13y ago

>"Is it a case that it was always like this and we're only just finding out or are these more recent happenings ?" As I related a few days ago, it has always been this way for some of us [0]. 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6142519 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6142519

mcguire 13y ago
Rubber hose jokes and Strange Fruit did not come from nowhere.

gyepi 13y ago

The "badness" is unevenly distributed. Well educated people with money tend not to have to deal with most of it. And can usually afford to make it go away when they do. Cops also tend not to bother them as much. I have a personal interest in "poor people's" issues, my wife works with a poor "population" and I live in an area with concerns about social justice so I'm a little more aware of it. The poor are different from you and me and it's not just because they have less money.

scarmig 13y ago
It's very unevenly distributed: dealing with it is a way of life for African Americans and Hispanics. But you can certainly be screwed over by corrupt or, worse, power-hungry police even when you're a well-to-do straight white male.

rayiner 13y ago

In the 1950's and 1960's, if you weren't white they wouldn't even pretend to give you a fair trial. The 4th amendment has been a fiction for probably two decades now in New York for non-whites. It's always been at least this bad, and in fact it's probably better now than it was in the 1950's and 1960's. The difference now is: 1) Stories about this sort of thing are becoming well-known thanks to the internet; 2) Police are starting to mess with white people.