4 ms·

I believe we are really heading for a de facto Wage slavery (mainly now that you can't declare bankruptcy from students debts) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wag

I believe we are really heading for a de facto Wage slavery (mainly now that you can't declare bankruptcy from students debts) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery

speeder 13y ago
I am from Brazil, there is no personal bankrupcty. Also, your debts are inherited, mandatorily, specially if you have spouse, kids, or parents (in the order. if you die, your spouse will get at least 50% of your debts, if you don't have one, then your kids will be forced to take at least 50% of your debts, if you don't have kids, then your parents... the other 50% must be inherited by someone too, but you can choose with your will who will be the unlucky person). And because a side effect of inheritance laws, the government can (although I never heard about it doing it) give your debts to a third cousin even. Also, another thing is that here in Brazil student debts commonly have as collateral the assets of a third party (in fact all sorts of debts here work that way, except for companies), so if I DO fail to pay my debt, then it will pass to my parents, that are already indebted and will certainly fail to pay it, then their stuff will be taken (and I don't have anything to be taken, my 3 most valuable assets are my laptop, my phone, and my glasses). EDIT to joseflavio: Your link is about law in Portugual, not Brazil, note the currency mentioned is Euro, not Reais. EDIT2 to joseflavio: I got curious enough, to see if there is anything analogous in Brazil, and indeed there is, by another name "renuncia". The law (I will skip the non-interesting part) about "renuncia": Art. 1.807. O interessado em que o herdeiro declare se aceita, ou não, a herança, poderá, vinte dias após aberta a sucessão, requerer ao juiz prazo razoável, não maior de trinta dias, para, nele, se pronunciar o herdeiro, sob pena de se haver a herança por aceita. Art. 1.812. São irrevogáveis os atos de aceitação ou de renúncia da herança. Art. 1.813. Quando o herdeiro prejudicar os seus credores, renunciando à herança, poderão eles, com autorização do juiz, aceitá-la em nome do renunciante. § 1o A habilitação dos credores se fará no prazo de trinta dias seguintes ao conhecimento do fato. § 2o Pagas as dívidas do renunciante, prevalece a renúncia quanto ao remanescente, que será devolvido aos demais herdeiros. Thus in short: You have 20 days to renounce your inheritance. If your are inheriting debts and renounce your inheritance, your creditors can sue to force you still inherit the debt and pay them, and after the debt is paid, the "good" parts of the inheritance get successfully renounced and go to someone else, thus attempting to renounce a debt only results in punishment, since you still get the debt, but DON'T get the good parts of the inheritance.
- rayiner 13y ago
  Holy Jesus Christ.
- euroclydon 13y ago
  This must make it so much more difficult for the the poor to ever escape their condition. I suppose it's common for an entire family tree to just tell lenders to take a hike, but then their only way to borrow money is through the black market, and there must be vanishingly few legitimate business opportunities were a person would feel confident that they could make enough money to pay loan-shark rates. I'm sure this policy is detrimental to class mobility and entrepreneurship, but I'd be interested to know if it even promotes a more profitable loan market than in countries with legal bankruptcy.
  - speeder 13y ago
    What you think? http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20130730-705372.html http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20130730-705372.html Banks here are breaking their own profit record for several years in a row, while the economy is almost in recession (last year 0.9% in growth, inflation currently 6.7%, also credit card rate is around 450% year. Last time I had to take a loan with the bank (instead of temporary negative balance) I paid 100% on a 6 month loan. The negative balance pays 10%/mo of your current balance (thus if you never repays it, you get a rate of 300% year) EDIT: "what do you think?" is a real question, I don't have data on other countries to know how much loan banks profit there.
- joseflavio 13y ago
  I am no lawyer... but I think it doesn't work exactly this way. You just inherit the debts if you decide to accept the inheritance (you have the option to just repudiate it). http://insolvenciapessoal.com/dividas-para-os-herdeiros/ http://insolvenciapessoal.com/dividas-para-os-herdeiros/ (in Portuguese) I live in France, and as far as I know, it works the same way. In Brazil your main residence is even protected (if you live on it)... only my 2c, but in in my opinion, US is still the scariest.
  - 13y ago

speeder 13y ago

I am from Brazil, there is no personal bankrupcty. Also, your debts are inherited, mandatorily, specially if you have spouse, kids, or parents (in the order. if you die, your spouse will get at least 50% of your debts, if you don't have one, then your kids will be forced to take at least 50% of your debts, if you don't have kids, then your parents... the other 50% must be inherited by someone too, but you can choose with your will who will be the unlucky person). And because a side effect of inheritance laws, the government can (although I never heard about it doing it) give your debts to a third cousin even. Also, another thing is that here in Brazil student debts commonly have as collateral the assets of a third party (in fact all sorts of debts here work that way, except for companies), so if I DO fail to pay my debt, then it will pass to my parents, that are already indebted and will certainly fail to pay it, then their stuff will be taken (and I don't have anything to be taken, my 3 most valuable assets are my laptop, my phone, and my glasses). EDIT to joseflavio: Your link is about law in Portugual, not Brazil, note the currency mentioned is Euro, not Reais. EDIT2 to joseflavio: I got curious enough, to see if there is anything analogous in Brazil, and indeed there is, by another name "renuncia". The law (I will skip the non-interesting part) about "renuncia": Art. 1.807. O interessado em que o herdeiro declare se aceita, ou não, a herança, poderá, vinte dias após aberta a sucessão, requerer ao juiz prazo razoável, não maior de trinta dias, para, nele, se pronunciar o herdeiro, sob pena de se haver a herança por aceita. Art. 1.812. São irrevogáveis os atos de aceitação ou de renúncia da herança. Art. 1.813. Quando o herdeiro prejudicar os seus credores, renunciando à herança, poderão eles, com autorização do juiz, aceitá-la em nome do renunciante. § 1o A habilitação dos credores se fará no prazo de trinta dias seguintes ao conhecimento do fato. § 2o Pagas as dívidas do renunciante, prevalece a renúncia quanto ao remanescente, que será devolvido aos demais herdeiros. Thus in short: You have 20 days to renounce your inheritance. If your are inheriting debts and renounce your inheritance, your creditors can sue to force you still inherit the debt and pay them, and after the debt is paid, the "good" parts of the inheritance get successfully renounced and go to someone else, thus attempting to renounce a debt only results in punishment, since you still get the debt, but DON'T get the good parts of the inheritance.

rayiner 13y ago
Holy Jesus Christ.
euroclydon 13y ago
This must make it so much more difficult for the the poor to ever escape their condition. I suppose it's common for an entire family tree to just tell lenders to take a hike, but then their only way to borrow money is through the black market, and there must be vanishingly few legitimate business opportunities were a person would feel confident that they could make enough money to pay loan-shark rates. I'm sure this policy is detrimental to class mobility and entrepreneurship, but I'd be interested to know if it even promotes a more profitable loan market than in countries with legal bankruptcy.
- speeder 13y ago
  What you think? http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20130730-705372.html http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20130730-705372.html Banks here are breaking their own profit record for several years in a row, while the economy is almost in recession (last year 0.9% in growth, inflation currently 6.7%, also credit card rate is around 450% year. Last time I had to take a loan with the bank (instead of temporary negative balance) I paid 100% on a 6 month loan. The negative balance pays 10%/mo of your current balance (thus if you never repays it, you get a rate of 300% year) EDIT: "what do you think?" is a real question, I don't have data on other countries to know how much loan banks profit there.
joseflavio 13y ago
I am no lawyer... but I think it doesn't work exactly this way. You just inherit the debts if you decide to accept the inheritance (you have the option to just repudiate it). http://insolvenciapessoal.com/dividas-para-os-herdeiros/ http://insolvenciapessoal.com/dividas-para-os-herdeiros/ (in Portuguese) I live in France, and as far as I know, it works the same way. In Brazil your main residence is even protected (if you live on it)... only my 2c, but in in my opinion, US is still the scariest.
- 13y ago