6 ms·

We have a lot of entrepreneurs here. Why don't we start with an easier lab-grown animal product than something we ingest? How about lab-grown fur coats (EDIT

by spodek 13y ago

We have a lot of entrepreneurs here. Why don't we start with an easier lab-grown animal product than something we ingest? How about lab-grown fur coats (EDIT from evilduck's comment: or lab-grown leather for clothing, furniture, shoes, etc)? Who wouldn't want to wear a "mink" coat created with no animal pain? Develop the technology on something we don't have to eat, along with the associated health risks and sensitivity of our palates, but still useful. Then transfer the technology to the harder areas. I wrote about in-vitro fur before -- http://joshuaspodek.com/vegetarian-entrepreneurs-test http://joshuaspodek.com/vegetarian-entrepreneurs-test. I'd love to see it but haven't heard of anyone working on it. Is anyone doing it? Another application easier than in-vitro meat for humans -- in-vitro meat pet food.

ginko 13y ago
Lab grown fur seems a lot harder to do than lab grown meat. Skin is an incredibly complex organ. Especially if you want to grow hair on it.
- freehunter 13y ago
  Maybe the first step would be developing the ability to grow hair on existing skin. That would be a very popular breakthrough, curing baldness and patching up scar tissue that cannot grow hair anymore. Then it's a matter of getting that to grow on synthetic skin.
  - LaGrange 13y ago
    Just wait. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294205/Billionaire-Bill-Gates-blasts-capitalism-saying-reason-research-male-baldness-gets-funding-malaria.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294205/Billionaire-...
nsns 13y ago
Why don't we start with an easier lab-grown animal product than something we ingest? Because it's a prestige product, Where "authenticity" counts? (e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_diamond http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_diamond) Or perhaps because millions of animals are slaughtered each day to be consumed as food?
- rorrr2 13y ago
  Synthetic diamonds are actually not cheap at all, maybe third of the price of the real ones. I expected them to be dirt cheap when shopping for the wedding ring.
  - wikiburner 13y ago
    She's a lucky woman. :)
    - rorrr2 13y ago
      The idea was to get a much bigger identical rock for the same money.
      - wikiburner 13y ago
        Whoops, sorry. I thought the smiley made it clear I was just kidding around. Seriously, I don't blame you one iota, the De Beer's racket is an absolute crime.
  - 3825 13y ago
    I am not surprised. I'd expect the "jewellery-grade" synthetic diamonds to have the same artificial inflation of price that we see in natural diamonds. I would imagine industrial diamond dust has a different cost.
    - VLM 13y ago
      "I would imagine industrial diamond dust has a different cost." I have a tube of diamond lapping compound somewhere in my basement shop. Dirt cheap because its full of inclusions and not clear. They generally don't use jewelry grade diamonds for industrial work, although to manipulate the market I suppose anything could happen. I was motivated enough to check amazon for the stuff I have and you're probably doing something wrong or weird if you're paying more than $3/gram delivered. One problem with buying a 5 gram plastic syringe of diamond lapping paste for $5 is the plastic syringe and shipping and handling probably cost a significant fraction... I would bet on industrial 55 gallon barrel scale its under $1/gram.
drakeandrews 13y ago
Lab grown fur is an interesting prospect. We've got (almost) industrial scale lab-grown skin and a quick check with a friend who knows much more than I informs me that she can't think of any barriers to growing fur this way. You could even insert chemical/genetic markers such that one could guarantee that a given piece of clothing was made from lab grown and not "real" fur. Also, not a huge fan of mink. Other furs, perhaps. But not mink. As a second aside, if we could produce fur, what about human hair, for wigs? But you'd likely have more regulatory issues with human hair than otherwise.
rattray 13y ago
Could fur possibly be easier to grow than meat? I think it's a fascinating idea, actually, but my impression is that in-vitro meat is currently mostly just muscle cells grown in culture, without any of the complications of mixing different cell types, giving them structure, etc. With fur, you'd have to create hair follicles, and induce the right oils to be excreted, etc... I'm not a biologist but it sounds much tougher.
evilduck 13y ago
I've seen this article's on that topic before: http://www.gizmag.com/modern-meadow-in-vitro-leather/24441/ http://www.gizmag.com/modern-meadow-in-vitro-leather/24441/ The idea is generally that growing leather involves solving many of the same problems as growing meat, but lets you bootstrap the business on something that doesn't involve the FDA clearing you as a food (nor does it have the same cognitive effects on people wearing something lab-grown vs eating something lab-grown).
VLM 13y ago
One huge problem is the fake fur marketplace is already saturated with fake fur manufactured directly industrially rather than your alternative of industrially manufacturing skin which then grows natural fur, sorta. Its about a century old industry and reasonably stable market (well, as stable as women's fashion industry can be, anyway. Its demand is not nearly as stable as, say, coal demand.)
smackay 13y ago
Synthetic fur is just going to re-ignite demand for the real thing. It might not be socially acceptable (perhaps) and only the wearer would know for sure but that's a battle that should not need to be fought again. Also, historically speaking, when it comes to fashion, pain and suffering of animals has never been anywhere on the list of concerns of those involved. It took many, many decades for it to become an issue. As suggested elsewhere, lab-grown leather might be a more laudable goal, particularly if a way to avoid using the myriad of toxic chemicals could be found. Lab-generated milk would also be a win, but that might undermine the "breast is best" campaign which again took a long time to wage, but the idea probably has merit.
jdietrich 13y ago
Because it would be orders of magnitude more difficult. Muscle tissue is relatively homogeneous and has a far simpler structure than skin and hair folicles. Minced meat has had most of the complex macro-structure destroyed by the process of mincing, so it's easier still to imitate than whole pieces of meat. There is also a very limited market for these products, as there are many satisfactory substitutes to leather and fur. Synthetic materials have replaced or augmented natural materials in most of the textiles industry, because they can offer superior properties. I think a far more interesting development is Beyond Meat, who make a wholly plant-based chicken substitute that is remarkably realistic.
- Retric 13y ago
  It may be more difficult but we have synthetic meet it's just far to expencive to be practical. So the fact that the end product would presumably be with a lot more per lb could be a significant factor. PS: I suspect you could sell a few thousand 100k coats a year under the 'Animal Free' idea. Which pays for a fair amount of R&D.
  - mscarborough 13y ago
    You can already buy animal-free synthetic fur coats, and if you pay even $1,000 you're getting ripped off in a big way.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
bayesianhorse 13y ago
I don't believe that it would be easier/cheaper/better to make lab-grown fur over just artificial fur.
rmc 13y ago
Lab grown meat scales much more. If you cracking it, suddenly you can attack the whole meat industry.
tocomment 13y ago
Lab grown ivory could be a big win? Or maybe lab grown amergris?
prbuckley 13y ago
One reason is that leather is a waste by product of the demand for meat. If we made artificial leather it wouldn't really lower the number of animals that would need to be raised.

by spodek 13y ago

ginko 13y ago

Lab grown fur seems a lot harder to do than lab grown meat. Skin is an incredibly complex organ. Especially if you want to grow hair on it.

freehunter 13y ago
Maybe the first step would be developing the ability to grow hair on existing skin. That would be a very popular breakthrough, curing baldness and patching up scar tissue that cannot grow hair anymore. Then it's a matter of getting that to grow on synthetic skin.
- LaGrange 13y ago
  Just wait. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294205/Billionaire-Bill-Gates-blasts-capitalism-saying-reason-research-male-baldness-gets-funding-malaria.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294205/Billionaire-...

nsns 13y ago

Why don't we start with an easier lab-grown animal product than something we ingest? Because it's a prestige product, Where "authenticity" counts? (e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_diamond http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_diamond) Or perhaps because millions of animals are slaughtered each day to be consumed as food?

rorrr2 13y ago
Synthetic diamonds are actually not cheap at all, maybe third of the price of the real ones. I expected them to be dirt cheap when shopping for the wedding ring.
- wikiburner 13y ago
  She's a lucky woman. :)
  - rorrr2 13y ago
    The idea was to get a much bigger identical rock for the same money.
    - wikiburner 13y ago
      Whoops, sorry. I thought the smiley made it clear I was just kidding around. Seriously, I don't blame you one iota, the De Beer's racket is an absolute crime.
- 3825 13y ago
  I am not surprised. I'd expect the "jewellery-grade" synthetic diamonds to have the same artificial inflation of price that we see in natural diamonds. I would imagine industrial diamond dust has a different cost.
  - VLM 13y ago
    "I would imagine industrial diamond dust has a different cost." I have a tube of diamond lapping compound somewhere in my basement shop. Dirt cheap because its full of inclusions and not clear. They generally don't use jewelry grade diamonds for industrial work, although to manipulate the market I suppose anything could happen. I was motivated enough to check amazon for the stuff I have and you're probably doing something wrong or weird if you're paying more than $3/gram delivered. One problem with buying a 5 gram plastic syringe of diamond lapping paste for $5 is the plastic syringe and shipping and handling probably cost a significant fraction... I would bet on industrial 55 gallon barrel scale its under $1/gram.

drakeandrews 13y ago

Lab grown fur is an interesting prospect. We've got (almost) industrial scale lab-grown skin and a quick check with a friend who knows much more than I informs me that she can't think of any barriers to growing fur this way. You could even insert chemical/genetic markers such that one could guarantee that a given piece of clothing was made from lab grown and not "real" fur. Also, not a huge fan of mink. Other furs, perhaps. But not mink. As a second aside, if we could produce fur, what about human hair, for wigs? But you'd likely have more regulatory issues with human hair than otherwise.

rattray 13y ago

Could fur possibly be easier to grow than meat? I think it's a fascinating idea, actually, but my impression is that in-vitro meat is currently mostly just muscle cells grown in culture, without any of the complications of mixing different cell types, giving them structure, etc. With fur, you'd have to create hair follicles, and induce the right oils to be excreted, etc... I'm not a biologist but it sounds much tougher.

evilduck 13y ago

I've seen this article's on that topic before: http://www.gizmag.com/modern-meadow-in-vitro-leather/24441/ http://www.gizmag.com/modern-meadow-in-vitro-leather/24441/ The idea is generally that growing leather involves solving many of the same problems as growing meat, but lets you bootstrap the business on something that doesn't involve the FDA clearing you as a food (nor does it have the same cognitive effects on people wearing something lab-grown vs eating something lab-grown).

VLM 13y ago

One huge problem is the fake fur marketplace is already saturated with fake fur manufactured directly industrially rather than your alternative of industrially manufacturing skin which then grows natural fur, sorta. Its about a century old industry and reasonably stable market (well, as stable as women's fashion industry can be, anyway. Its demand is not nearly as stable as, say, coal demand.)

smackay 13y ago

Synthetic fur is just going to re-ignite demand for the real thing. It might not be socially acceptable (perhaps) and only the wearer would know for sure but that's a battle that should not need to be fought again. Also, historically speaking, when it comes to fashion, pain and suffering of animals has never been anywhere on the list of concerns of those involved. It took many, many decades for it to become an issue. As suggested elsewhere, lab-grown leather might be a more laudable goal, particularly if a way to avoid using the myriad of toxic chemicals could be found. Lab-generated milk would also be a win, but that might undermine the "breast is best" campaign which again took a long time to wage, but the idea probably has merit.

jdietrich 13y ago

Because it would be orders of magnitude more difficult. Muscle tissue is relatively homogeneous and has a far simpler structure than skin and hair folicles. Minced meat has had most of the complex macro-structure destroyed by the process of mincing, so it's easier still to imitate than whole pieces of meat. There is also a very limited market for these products, as there are many satisfactory substitutes to leather and fur. Synthetic materials have replaced or augmented natural materials in most of the textiles industry, because they can offer superior properties. I think a far more interesting development is Beyond Meat, who make a wholly plant-based chicken substitute that is remarkably realistic.

Retric 13y ago
It may be more difficult but we have synthetic meet it's just far to expencive to be practical. So the fact that the end product would presumably be with a lot more per lb could be a significant factor. PS: I suspect you could sell a few thousand 100k coats a year under the 'Animal Free' idea. Which pays for a fair amount of R&D.
- mscarborough 13y ago
  You can already buy animal-free synthetic fur coats, and if you pay even $1,000 you're getting ripped off in a big way.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]

bayesianhorse 13y ago

I don't believe that it would be easier/cheaper/better to make lab-grown fur over just artificial fur.

rmc 13y ago

Lab grown meat scales much more. If you cracking it, suddenly you can attack the whole meat industry.

tocomment 13y ago

Lab grown ivory could be a big win? Or maybe lab grown amergris?

prbuckley 13y ago

One reason is that leather is a waste by product of the demand for meat. If we made artificial leather it wouldn't really lower the number of animals that would need to be raised.