8 ms·

Not just prison rape, but the very idea of "prison should be as harsh as possible" is absolutely awful.

by octo_t 13y ago

sigzero 13y ago
Hmmm...I do not know anyone with the mentality of "prison should be as harsh as possible". Prison shouldn't be a "cake walk" either.
- chongli 13y ago
  Personally, I'd go even further. The very idea that prison is primarily about punishment (revenge by proxy?) instead of rehabilitation is wrongheaded. The goal of any policy should be the betterment of society. We have plenty of evidence to show that prisons designed for rehabilitation have lower incidences of recidivism than harsh, punitive ones.
  - Zariel 13y ago
    See Norway and Denmark's prison system and much of Europe in general.
    - rayiner 13y ago
      Homogenous countries with low levels of social dysfunction and high social cohesion have an easier time dealing with prisoners: news at 11.
      - kybernetikos 13y ago
        That sounds like a cop out. Not least because the problems mentioned here aren't so much with the prisoners but with the political system that criminalises common behaviour, the legal system that puts non dangerous offenders in prison and the cultural attitude that abuse is warranted. Even if it isn't a cop out, it might be better taken as a suggestion for areas to target for improvement (social dysfunction, social cohesion) than as an excuse for complacency.
        rayiner 13y ago
        It's an explanation not an excuse. Go to the south side of Chicago and try to see what sorts of cultural ties exist between the people there and the people in the rest of the city. There is a profound disconnect, and a profound lack of any sense of connection to a common community. Obviously Denmark or Norway have poor people. But the sense that one group of people are not even party to the same social contract is not one that is common in Europe, though you see it among Muslim immigrants in the UK and France. Lack of faith in social institutions breeds crime. If you're a poor teenager in Chicago deciding whether to join a gang, you do it because the gang can protect you. The police won't protect you--the police are there to protect the rest of the city from you. And it's not just a matter of decriminalizing common behavior. The young people in Chicago joining gangs aren't non-violent offenders being out away for innocuous crimes. That's what makes the problem so deeply intractable. Even when you take away the overly long sentences and the convictions for innocuous things like mere drug possession, the US has far more crime than Denmark or Norway. Europe is going to see it too, soon. Below replacement fertility has meant increasing immigration, faster than those people can be integrated. And then Europe too will have to deal with the "us versus them" mentality that arises in such populations.
        dragonwriter 13y ago
        > Obviously Denmark or Norway have poor people. Not really the way the US does: Most recent available Gini Coefficients [1]: Denmark 24.8 Norway 25 Germany 27 E.U. 30.7 India 36.8 World 39 Nigeria 43.7 United States 45 Mozambique 45.6 The biggest underlying problem with the US prison (educational, healthcare, etc.) system is that the US economic system is actively maintained to increase the concentration of wealth and the degree to which Americans don't share a common set of interests. But, still, such broader social problems aren't the only big problems in the prison or other systems, and even though they need to be fixed, there are big steps that can be taken short of fixing them to deal with other real problems in each of those systems. > And it's not just a matter of decriminalizing common behavior. Ending drug prohibition would do quite a lot of to mitigate the problem with prisons, even though it wouldn't deal with the biggest underlying problem. > The young people in Chicago joining gangs aren't non-violent offenders being out away for innocuous crimes. No, but there'd be a lot less broken homes for them to come from if it weren't lots of resources being poored into non-violent offenders being put away for victimless crimes, and there'd be a lot more resources for the kinds of interventions that would stop people from ending up in gangs in the first places. > That's what makes the problem so deeply intractable. What makes the problem deeply intractable is people throwing up their hands and saying that the problem is too hard to deal with. (And, mostly, people seeing their own short-term self-interest being in not dealing with the problem.) [1] https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2172.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...
      - rbehrends 13y ago
        That's not really the underlying cause. The US has a much higher (as in: an order of magnitude higher) incarceration rate than the Nordic (or some Central European) countries. But the same cannot be said of crime rates. Crime rates in the US tend to be higher, but not nearly that much higher and not across the board. What sets the US apart that leads to high incarceration rates is primarily harsh sentencing (longer sentences, fewer suspended sentences, high minimum sentences, a general focus on retribution over rehabilitation, the "felonization" [1] of everything under the sun). [1] http://www.harveysilverglate.com/Books/ThreeFeloniesaDay.aspx http://www.harveysilverglate.com/Books/ThreeFeloniesaDay.asp... [2] [2] Yes, the book is a bit sensationalist, but there's plenty of truth to it. See, e.g. the Kiera Wilmot case [3]: What she did wouldn't have even risen to the level of a misdemeanor in most Western European countries. [3] http://www.businessinsider.com/kiera-wilmot-lawyer-hoping-to-prevent-felony-charges-from-being-filed-2013-5 http://www.businessinsider.com/kiera-wilmot-lawyer-hoping-to...
        rayiner 13y ago
        The murder rate in the U.S. is 16x that of Iceland, 8x that of Norway, 6x that of Germany, and 4-5x that of the Netherlands or France or the UK.
        xyzzyz 13y ago
        Well, if you're on the third strike, you might as well kill the witness instead let him go, as it does not increase your sentence, but decreases your chance of being caught. Of course, it's not the law that's solely responsible for crazy high crime rates compared to other civilized countries, nevertheless some practices used in US legal system can give a lot of incentive to minor offenders to do things they otherwise wouldn't.
        rbehrends 13y ago
        Yes, but the US robbery rate is lower than in England, and the crime rates in many other categories are comparable [1] to what you find in the EU. Intentional homicides make up only a small fraction of all crime. Crime tends to be more lethal in the US, not (that much) more frequent. [1] http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/statistics/data.html http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/statistics/d...
      - GFischer 13y ago
        Aren't there homogeneous states in the U.S.? I believe it has been shown that for similar cities, the U.S. system is worse - I think I saw an example of an U.S. and a Canadian city across the border, similar demographics, the U.S. one had 10 times the crime rate, etc..
  - rayiner 13y ago
    There was a rehabilitation trend in prison reform in the US in the 1950's and 1960's. It didn't work. Apparently, Americans are irredeemable.
  - briandear 13y ago
    The recidivism rate in Sweden is 35%. Which means, that even with a rehabilitative-oriented system, you still have 1/3 of prisoners returning to jail. It does provide some substance to the claim that some criminals can't be rehabilitated, because even in one of the "best" systems, you still have a large number going back to prison. Of course, the US recidivism rate is 67%, which is horrible, however it's very difficult to compare Sweden and the United States simply because you have some significant differences. It's difficult to assume that the only variable in play between the US and Nordic countries are simply the justice system. First, you have a demographic differences. You also have significant differences in culture as well. In Sweden for example, single parent families are just 20% of all families with children. Yet in the US, 67% of all black families with children are single-parent, with 42% in the Latino community and overall a rate of over 30% for all families with children in the United States. In 1960, the overall rate was just 9%. I'm not arguing for or against single parent families, but there is a strong correlation between the likelihood of being arrested and the strength of the family unit. Here's an article that discusses it more, including research citations: http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/the-real-complex-connection-between-single-parent-families-and-crime/265860/ http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/the-real-co... Suggesting that the prison system is the primary cause of recidivism is to miss the point. We shouldn't be focusing on recidivism, we should be focusing on what gets people into prison in the first place.
    - wmt 13y ago
      This is a very good point. Sweden also has a very extensive safety net, so government will give you a home and enough money to live on if you can't get a job. While it's really expensive on the surface, it's an excellent crime deterrent: why risk doing crimes when you can just sit on your ass playing Xbox? A welfare mooch is much cheaper per year than a prisoner.
    - newnewnew 13y ago
      Sweden has a growing problem with crime in an immigrant population[1] that does not feel it is part of Swedish culture[2]. Soon, the Swedish will have the same governance problems as America stemming from a multicultural society. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime#Sweden http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime#Sweden [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/world/europe/swedens-riots-put-its-identity-in-question.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/world/europe/swedens-riots...
- user24 13y ago
  > I do not know anyone with the mentality of "prison should be as harsh as possible" Go to facebook, find a local newspaper's page. Find a story about a rapist or someone guilty of animal cruelty or neglect. Here are a couple of quotes I found from comments on my local paper (in the UK): "It doesn't matter what went wrong he decided to take other peoples possesions by his own choice.he chose to invade peoples homes and didn't care what state he left houses or how the people felt afterwards he is scum.its people like him that ruin lives and he got off lightly from our weak judicial system and needs knee caps drilling as a reminder of why he should keep his thieving hands in his pockets in future." (7 likes) "All peados should be put into a mincer machine feet first, then when they pass out shut it off, then when they wake turn it bk on. Don't get why they get put on separate part of prison, throw them in with the other prisoners and let them get delt with! SICK CUNTS !!!!!" (4 likes) "Men who abuse women should be hung!" (3 likes) etc etc.
- falk 13y ago
  Going to prison shouldn't be about punishment. It should be about rehabilitation.
  - jwoah12 13y ago
    Just to play devil's advocate, are you positive you'd have the same view if someone murdered your spouse? Sexually assaulted your daughter? Beat the hell out of your mother?
    - kybernetikos 13y ago
      And to play angels advocate, are you positive you'd have the same view if your spouse murdered someone? Your daughter sexually assaulted someone? Your mother beat the hell out of someone?
    - Xylakant 13y ago
      This is exactly why society as a whole gets to decide instead of the victim or relatives of the victim. It's human that harm done to you or a close person is hard to forgive, but societies goals differ from the goals of the individual: The individuals goal is revenge, the societies goal is to keep the crime rate low. Part of that is betterment of offenders since it keeps the rate of recidivism lower, thus creates less future victims. It's certainly unfortunate that the two goals are not perfectly aligned. However, given human behaviour as it is your question is misleading the discussion: The answer is probably "no" and still, society should choose a different way.
      - jwoah12 13y ago
        Yes, we completely agree. My point isn't that society should look to punish people instead of rehabilitate them. It's that it is human nature to want to punish people, and it takes a special kind of person to see past that and do what is best for society. The average highly-educated, often idealist member of our little community may be able to do it, but I have no faith that a random American would.
      - gadders 13y ago
- veidr 13y ago
  Are you American? If so, the majority of your Congressional representatives have (or at least espouse) this mentality, which is both overtly and subtly reinforced by the money they receive from the industrial prison lobby.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
scotty79 13y ago
For me the scariest idea is that a private company who runs the prison gets to decide how will you be trated there and how many additional punishments you'll have to suffer through and noone questions their right to basically own you.
- falk 13y ago
  Or private prisons that have minimum guaranteed occupancy rates with the State. What the hell.
  - JonnieCache 13y ago
    Source? Because that is insane.
    - jdmt 13y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
    - falk 13y ago
      Ask and you shall receive. "Ohio's deal requires the state to maintain a 90% occupancy rate, but Janes said that provision remains in effect for 18 months — not 20 years — before it can be renegotiated. As part of the deal, Ohio pays the company a monthly fee, totaling $3.8 million per year." [1] Another big problem with private prisons and juvenile centers is that judges get greased to send kids to specific centers. [2] [1] http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-01/buying-prisons-require-high-occupancy/53402894/1 http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-01/... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
  - rdtsc 13y ago
    Not only that, They actively lobby Congress to keep up the War on Drugs. Their argument is pure economical -- "If you tone down the War on Drugs then we will lose profits". Nothing to hide there plain and simple. Or that case in PA when the local judge was funneling kids to the local prison/"treatment" center.
newnewnew 13y ago
My thought is that the justice system should exist to make the country a better place. If criminals can be rehabilitated, they should be. If they can't, why are we keeping them alive for 50 years in a cage, raping people? Prison isn't the solution to every criminal problem, and harsh prisons just seem to produce more harden criminals. I wish we got over our squeamishness for non-prison punishments. For example, the "nanny cam" robber in NJ had twelve prior convictions, including one for a similar crime. You should watch the video, but I warn you it is graphic[1]. What does he add to society by staying alive? Is he going to turn his life around at the age of 42 and suddenly become a good father, an influential artist, or a visionary scientist? Or hell, even a guy with a steady job that doesn't commit gratuitous acts of violence against his fellow citizens? I fear no matter how far we lower the bar, this man will not pass it. Maybe I'm naive, but I reread "The Diamond Age" recently and I had a lot of respect for the brand of justice dispensed by Judge Fang. For example, Judge Fang would probably not order the death penalty on criminals like this[2] (again, graphic video) because they are young and probably much more malleable. But they need a punishment that is strongly focused on rehabilitation. In our justice system they will be sent to a prison that will only harden their criminal tendencies. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU0EJS3cJIc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU0EJS3cJIc [2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y70tZDW2AqY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y70tZDW2AqY
- bilbo0s 13y ago
  "...the "nanny cam" robber in NJ had twelve prior convictions..." That sounds like a person CREATED by prisons. Probably became MORE criminal after serving his first term. That much more criminal after the second. Etc.. etc. We mightn't even need the non-prison punishments were it not for our ... prisons??? Which is ... weird to think about. A lot of our crime may not even be committed if our prisons were not tantamount to "Crime College for Criminals"?

Not just prison rape, but the very idea of "prison should be as harsh as possible" is absolutely awful.

by octo_t 13y ago

Not just prison rape, but the very idea of "prison should be as harsh as possible" is absolutely awful.

Hmmm...I do not know anyone with the mentality of "prison should be as harsh as possible". Prison shouldn't be a "cake walk" either.

chongli 13y ago
Personally, I'd go even further. The very idea that prison is primarily about punishment (revenge by proxy?) instead of rehabilitation is wrongheaded. The goal of any policy should be the betterment of society. We have plenty of evidence to show that prisons designed for rehabilitation have lower incidences of recidivism than harsh, punitive ones.
- Zariel 13y ago
  See Norway and Denmark's prison system and much of Europe in general.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    Homogenous countries with low levels of social dysfunction and high social cohesion have an easier time dealing with prisoners: news at 11.
    - kybernetikos 13y ago
      That sounds like a cop out. Not least because the problems mentioned here aren't so much with the prisoners but with the political system that criminalises common behaviour, the legal system that puts non dangerous offenders in prison and the cultural attitude that abuse is warranted. Even if it isn't a cop out, it might be better taken as a suggestion for areas to target for improvement (social dysfunction, social cohesion) than as an excuse for complacency.
      - rayiner 13y ago
        It's an explanation not an excuse. Go to the south side of Chicago and try to see what sorts of cultural ties exist between the people there and the people in the rest of the city. There is a profound disconnect, and a profound lack of any sense of connection to a common community. Obviously Denmark or Norway have poor people. But the sense that one group of people are not even party to the same social contract is not one that is common in Europe, though you see it among Muslim immigrants in the UK and France. Lack of faith in social institutions breeds crime. If you're a poor teenager in Chicago deciding whether to join a gang, you do it because the gang can protect you. The police won't protect you--the police are there to protect the rest of the city from you. And it's not just a matter of decriminalizing common behavior. The young people in Chicago joining gangs aren't non-violent offenders being out away for innocuous crimes. That's what makes the problem so deeply intractable. Even when you take away the overly long sentences and the convictions for innocuous things like mere drug possession, the US has far more crime than Denmark or Norway. Europe is going to see it too, soon. Below replacement fertility has meant increasing immigration, faster than those people can be integrated. And then Europe too will have to deal with the "us versus them" mentality that arises in such populations.
        dragonwriter 13y ago
        > Obviously Denmark or Norway have poor people. Not really the way the US does: Most recent available Gini Coefficients [1]: Denmark 24.8 Norway 25 Germany 27 E.U. 30.7 India 36.8 World 39 Nigeria 43.7 United States 45 Mozambique 45.6 The biggest underlying problem with the US prison (educational, healthcare, etc.) system is that the US economic system is actively maintained to increase the concentration of wealth and the degree to which Americans don't share a common set of interests. But, still, such broader social problems aren't the only big problems in the prison or other systems, and even though they need to be fixed, there are big steps that can be taken short of fixing them to deal with other real problems in each of those systems. > And it's not just a matter of decriminalizing common behavior. Ending drug prohibition would do quite a lot of to mitigate the problem with prisons, even though it wouldn't deal with the biggest underlying problem. > The young people in Chicago joining gangs aren't non-violent offenders being out away for innocuous crimes. No, but there'd be a lot less broken homes for them to come from if it weren't lots of resources being poored into non-violent offenders being put away for victimless crimes, and there'd be a lot more resources for the kinds of interventions that would stop people from ending up in gangs in the first places. > That's what makes the problem so deeply intractable. What makes the problem deeply intractable is people throwing up their hands and saying that the problem is too hard to deal with. (And, mostly, people seeing their own short-term self-interest being in not dealing with the problem.) [1] https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2172.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...
    - rbehrends 13y ago
      That's not really the underlying cause. The US has a much higher (as in: an order of magnitude higher) incarceration rate than the Nordic (or some Central European) countries. But the same cannot be said of crime rates. Crime rates in the US tend to be higher, but not nearly that much higher and not across the board. What sets the US apart that leads to high incarceration rates is primarily harsh sentencing (longer sentences, fewer suspended sentences, high minimum sentences, a general focus on retribution over rehabilitation, the "felonization" [1] of everything under the sun). [1] http://www.harveysilverglate.com/Books/ThreeFeloniesaDay.aspx http://www.harveysilverglate.com/Books/ThreeFeloniesaDay.asp... [2] [2] Yes, the book is a bit sensationalist, but there's plenty of truth to it. See, e.g. the Kiera Wilmot case [3]: What she did wouldn't have even risen to the level of a misdemeanor in most Western European countries. [3] http://www.businessinsider.com/kiera-wilmot-lawyer-hoping-to-prevent-felony-charges-from-being-filed-2013-5 http://www.businessinsider.com/kiera-wilmot-lawyer-hoping-to...
      - rayiner 13y ago
        The murder rate in the U.S. is 16x that of Iceland, 8x that of Norway, 6x that of Germany, and 4-5x that of the Netherlands or France or the UK.
        xyzzyz 13y ago
        Well, if you're on the third strike, you might as well kill the witness instead let him go, as it does not increase your sentence, but decreases your chance of being caught. Of course, it's not the law that's solely responsible for crazy high crime rates compared to other civilized countries, nevertheless some practices used in US legal system can give a lot of incentive to minor offenders to do things they otherwise wouldn't.
        rbehrends 13y ago
        Yes, but the US robbery rate is lower than in England, and the crime rates in many other categories are comparable [1] to what you find in the EU. Intentional homicides make up only a small fraction of all crime. Crime tends to be more lethal in the US, not (that much) more frequent. [1] http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/statistics/data.html http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/statistics/d...
    - GFischer 13y ago
      Aren't there homogeneous states in the U.S.? I believe it has been shown that for similar cities, the U.S. system is worse - I think I saw an example of an U.S. and a Canadian city across the border, similar demographics, the U.S. one had 10 times the crime rate, etc..
- rayiner 13y ago
  There was a rehabilitation trend in prison reform in the US in the 1950's and 1960's. It didn't work. Apparently, Americans are irredeemable.
- briandear 13y ago
  The recidivism rate in Sweden is 35%. Which means, that even with a rehabilitative-oriented system, you still have 1/3 of prisoners returning to jail. It does provide some substance to the claim that some criminals can't be rehabilitated, because even in one of the "best" systems, you still have a large number going back to prison. Of course, the US recidivism rate is 67%, which is horrible, however it's very difficult to compare Sweden and the United States simply because you have some significant differences. It's difficult to assume that the only variable in play between the US and Nordic countries are simply the justice system. First, you have a demographic differences. You also have significant differences in culture as well. In Sweden for example, single parent families are just 20% of all families with children. Yet in the US, 67% of all black families with children are single-parent, with 42% in the Latino community and overall a rate of over 30% for all families with children in the United States. In 1960, the overall rate was just 9%. I'm not arguing for or against single parent families, but there is a strong correlation between the likelihood of being arrested and the strength of the family unit. Here's an article that discusses it more, including research citations: http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/the-real-complex-connection-between-single-parent-families-and-crime/265860/ http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/the-real-co... Suggesting that the prison system is the primary cause of recidivism is to miss the point. We shouldn't be focusing on recidivism, we should be focusing on what gets people into prison in the first place.
  - wmt 13y ago
    This is a very good point. Sweden also has a very extensive safety net, so government will give you a home and enough money to live on if you can't get a job. While it's really expensive on the surface, it's an excellent crime deterrent: why risk doing crimes when you can just sit on your ass playing Xbox? A welfare mooch is much cheaper per year than a prisoner.
  - newnewnew 13y ago
    Sweden has a growing problem with crime in an immigrant population[1] that does not feel it is part of Swedish culture[2]. Soon, the Swedish will have the same governance problems as America stemming from a multicultural society. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime#Sweden http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime#Sweden [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/world/europe/swedens-riots-put-its-identity-in-question.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/world/europe/swedens-riots...
user24 13y ago
> I do not know anyone with the mentality of "prison should be as harsh as possible" Go to facebook, find a local newspaper's page. Find a story about a rapist or someone guilty of animal cruelty or neglect. Here are a couple of quotes I found from comments on my local paper (in the UK): "It doesn't matter what went wrong he decided to take other peoples possesions by his own choice.he chose to invade peoples homes and didn't care what state he left houses or how the people felt afterwards he is scum.its people like him that ruin lives and he got off lightly from our weak judicial system and needs knee caps drilling as a reminder of why he should keep his thieving hands in his pockets in future." (7 likes) "All peados should be put into a mincer machine feet first, then when they pass out shut it off, then when they wake turn it bk on. Don't get why they get put on separate part of prison, throw them in with the other prisoners and let them get delt with! SICK CUNTS !!!!!" (4 likes) "Men who abuse women should be hung!" (3 likes) etc etc.
falk 13y ago
Going to prison shouldn't be about punishment. It should be about rehabilitation.
- jwoah12 13y ago
  Just to play devil's advocate, are you positive you'd have the same view if someone murdered your spouse? Sexually assaulted your daughter? Beat the hell out of your mother?
  - kybernetikos 13y ago
    And to play angels advocate, are you positive you'd have the same view if your spouse murdered someone? Your daughter sexually assaulted someone? Your mother beat the hell out of someone?
  - Xylakant 13y ago
    This is exactly why society as a whole gets to decide instead of the victim or relatives of the victim. It's human that harm done to you or a close person is hard to forgive, but societies goals differ from the goals of the individual: The individuals goal is revenge, the societies goal is to keep the crime rate low. Part of that is betterment of offenders since it keeps the rate of recidivism lower, thus creates less future victims. It's certainly unfortunate that the two goals are not perfectly aligned. However, given human behaviour as it is your question is misleading the discussion: The answer is probably "no" and still, society should choose a different way.
    - jwoah12 13y ago
      Yes, we completely agree. My point isn't that society should look to punish people instead of rehabilitate them. It's that it is human nature to want to punish people, and it takes a special kind of person to see past that and do what is best for society. The average highly-educated, often idealist member of our little community may be able to do it, but I have no faith that a random American would.
    - gadders 13y ago
veidr 13y ago
Are you American? If so, the majority of your Congressional representatives have (or at least espouse) this mentality, which is both overtly and subtly reinforced by the money they receive from the industrial prison lobby.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

scotty79 13y ago

For me the scariest idea is that a private company who runs the prison gets to decide how will you be trated there and how many additional punishments you'll have to suffer through and noone questions their right to basically own you.

falk 13y ago
Or private prisons that have minimum guaranteed occupancy rates with the State. What the hell.
- JonnieCache 13y ago
  Source? Because that is insane.
  - jdmt 13y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
  - falk 13y ago
    Ask and you shall receive. "Ohio's deal requires the state to maintain a 90% occupancy rate, but Janes said that provision remains in effect for 18 months — not 20 years — before it can be renegotiated. As part of the deal, Ohio pays the company a monthly fee, totaling $3.8 million per year." [1] Another big problem with private prisons and juvenile centers is that judges get greased to send kids to specific centers. [2] [1] http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-01/buying-prisons-require-high-occupancy/53402894/1 http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-01/... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
- rdtsc 13y ago
  Not only that, They actively lobby Congress to keep up the War on Drugs. Their argument is pure economical -- "If you tone down the War on Drugs then we will lose profits". Nothing to hide there plain and simple. Or that case in PA when the local judge was funneling kids to the local prison/"treatment" center.

newnewnew 13y ago

My thought is that the justice system should exist to make the country a better place. If criminals can be rehabilitated, they should be. If they can't, why are we keeping them alive for 50 years in a cage, raping people? Prison isn't the solution to every criminal problem, and harsh prisons just seem to produce more harden criminals. I wish we got over our squeamishness for non-prison punishments. For example, the "nanny cam" robber in NJ had twelve prior convictions, including one for a similar crime. You should watch the video, but I warn you it is graphic[1]. What does he add to society by staying alive? Is he going to turn his life around at the age of 42 and suddenly become a good father, an influential artist, or a visionary scientist? Or hell, even a guy with a steady job that doesn't commit gratuitous acts of violence against his fellow citizens? I fear no matter how far we lower the bar, this man will not pass it. Maybe I'm naive, but I reread "The Diamond Age" recently and I had a lot of respect for the brand of justice dispensed by Judge Fang. For example, Judge Fang would probably not order the death penalty on criminals like this[2] (again, graphic video) because they are young and probably much more malleable. But they need a punishment that is strongly focused on rehabilitation. In our justice system they will be sent to a prison that will only harden their criminal tendencies. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU0EJS3cJIc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU0EJS3cJIc [2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y70tZDW2AqY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y70tZDW2AqY

bilbo0s 13y ago
"...the "nanny cam" robber in NJ had twelve prior convictions..." That sounds like a person CREATED by prisons. Probably became MORE criminal after serving his first term. That much more criminal after the second. Etc.. etc. We mightn't even need the non-prison punishments were it not for our ... prisons??? Which is ... weird to think about. A lot of our crime may not even be committed if our prisons were not tantamount to "Crime College for Criminals"?